okblocker
New Member
Posts:25
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| 26 Feb 2011 01:47 PM |
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I need to ask the community if anyone knows of a system that can have styrofoam on one side and exposed concrete on the other.
Seems to me that several years ago someone had a system that touted these features.
I need a minimum of 8" concrete and __?__ insulation. These will be tall walls - 20 ft.
I don't want to use standard ICF and then strip the inside styro off.
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pjf
New Member
Posts:33
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| 26 Feb 2011 02:16 PM |
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Integra spec
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jdebree
Basic Member
Posts:497
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| 26 Feb 2011 05:18 PM |
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Why couldn't you just use poured walls, and install the foam afterward? Or use a thicker-than-normal form, and secure the foam on the inside of it prior to pouring? ICF is simply a poured wall, using foam instead of regular forms. The other difference is that you leave it in place, and of course it has all those neat webs to hold the re-bar in place. I think, but I'm not sure, that you could possibly use TF System components to do this, but it would be more expensive than simply pouring a wall and installing the foam afterward. |
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ICF372
Basic Member
Posts:111
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| 02 Mar 2011 04:08 PM |
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Tim,
We used Integraspec's removable face system, at the Western Wayne Elementary school.
It was an 8" wall, 14' tall and about 110' long with a corner. It could be any thickness and it works well. Not as fast as assembling standard panels.
But it works surprisingly well.
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Eldon Howe<br>Howe Construction
[email protected]
<br><br>Total Concrete Homes provide positive cash flow , DAY ONE . |
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okblocker
New Member
Posts:25
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| 02 Mar 2011 04:32 PM |
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Eldon,
Thanks for the info. I talked to Jim about that and we're still thinking about it.
Heard anything about OCTAFORM?
Tim
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okblocker
New Member
Posts:25
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| 02 Mar 2011 04:34 PM |
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Also, does anyone know of an epoxy type coating that could be sprayed on ICF and not disolve the styrofoam? |
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radiantbarrier
New Member
Posts:74
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| 02 Mar 2011 04:49 PM |
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Tim please see our ICF coatings at www.TheGreenBuildingProductsStore.com PlasterMax is the green alternative to drywall and StuccoMax is the exterior coating for ICF. Both products can be sprayed directly to EPS foam. |
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eric monkman
Basic Member
Posts:262
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| 02 Mar 2011 09:10 PM |
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Tim : This system works with standard "duraform" style concrete panels. The foam duplicates the form tie pattern and is inserted while standing the formwork. Strapping is attached to the "button" at the form tie, or gyprock can be glued direct, to finish. Panels are type 2 density, flame retardant in 3 and 4 inch. Customer satisfaction level is high. email me direct, if you require a contact. Made in Canada :-) ** Note that these pics are 4 or 5 years old and that we would never use a "double 90" on the placing hose these days. Times have changed. I hope they have all gone to the recycle yard ! For 20 ft high walls, I'd be more inclined to think "tilt-up" http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j...=slideshow |
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FBBP
Veteran Member
Posts:1215
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| 02 Mar 2011 10:31 PM |
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Posted By eric monkman on 02 Mar 2011 09:10 PM
Tim : This system works with standard "duraform" style concrete panels.
The foam duplicates the form tie pattern and is inserted while standing the formwork.
Strapping is attached to the "button" at the form tie, or gyprock can be glued direct, to finish.
Panels are type 2 density, flame retardant in 3 and 4 inch.
Customer satisfaction level is high.
email me direct, if you require a contact.
Made in Canada :-)
** Note that these pics are 4 or 5 years old and that we would never use
a "double 90" on the placing hose these days.
Times have changed.
I hope they have all gone to the recycle yard !
For 20 ft high walls, I'd be more inclined to think "tilt-up"
http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j...=slideshow
Eric - what would you see as the advantage of this system over one sided Integra Spec? I just don't like lifting Dura forms anymore ;-)
Bob
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eric monkman
Basic Member
Posts:262
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| 03 Mar 2011 08:09 AM |
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Bob :
I'm not much for carrying Duraforms either :-)
But, I don't understand how one sided Integra works.
What formwork is in place on the opposite side ?
This system runs~ $1.25 per sq ft in 3 inch, so it meets a price point between ICF and conventional.
We have married it to standard ICF's for ground floor and above.
And it keeps a standard brickledge detail instead of the corbel, and eliminates acrylic stucco on the foundation exterior. |
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ICF372
Basic Member
Posts:111
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| 03 Mar 2011 09:40 AM |
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It’s been a while since I’ve looked at Octaform. It appears to work well.
Would you still need to remove the vinyl facing?
Can you thread the re-bar through the forms?
Eric,
The removable face IntegraSpec system uses standard integraSpec panels on the outside then appropriate spacers with the stud inserts on the inside. It looks a little like a TF set up at this point. Re-bar is inserted as each course of spacers is slid into place. After that 1/2" plywood that is ripped 7 7/8" wide is vertically inserted between the stud inserts, add some strapping and it's ready to pour. Don’t over think the strapping it doesn’t require that much.
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Eldon Howe<br>Howe Construction
[email protected]
<br><br>Total Concrete Homes provide positive cash flow , DAY ONE . |
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eric monkman
Basic Member
Posts:262
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| 03 Mar 2011 10:19 AM |
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Hi Eldon : Thanks for the info.
I went to Integra's site, and it looks like they set up a little different,than what you describe.
For elevator core walls and the like even "Strip-Eze" type panels,which are 3/4 formply both faces
using a flat tie with 1/4 x 3/4 locking bar could adapt to one face of foam quite easily.
You could used Integra's, Nudura's or whomever panels.
Form ties are made by LeDrew Mfg in Ontario.
I think Gates has a similar system in the USA.
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robinnc
Advanced Member
Posts:586
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| 03 Mar 2011 10:13 PM |
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rb.....how does the plastermax compare cost wise with sheetrock.....material and labor?
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FBBP
Veteran Member
Posts:1215
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| 03 Mar 2011 11:22 PM |
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Eric - With Integra, you order the pieces that are normally cast into the panel. Panel one side, web (spacer) and insert on the side you want open. Slide the 7 7/8" ply in were the foam would have been (but vertical). After the pour you knock off the plastic sort of like Strip ease. My supplier did one in Calgary that they wanted an exposed aggregate face and after sand blasting it looked good. Sort of messes with the efficiency thing but hey the customer is always right. I'm sure you could do the same thing with longer ties with Strip ease but you still have to carry the forms ;-)
Bob |
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BrucePolycrete
Advanced Member
Posts:524
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| 04 Mar 2011 09:24 AM |
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There's an Integra hotel going up in Pittsburgh right now. Maybe you could contact the GC and see how he likes the form. Sota Construction. |
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ICF372
Basic Member
Posts:111
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| 04 Mar 2011 11:27 AM |
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Bruce,
I’m not quite sure if your knocking the form or the ICF installer, Maybe your not knocking anything, but maybe suggesting that GC is unhappy with ICF build Process.
We just competed the first stage of a dormitory with a pre-built form and we finished the ICF ahead of schedule “ their schedule”. The GC is happy with workmanship and the form.
Even though we are on schedule they press us to excel the schedule and believe we should add more manpower. They complain about the space required by the ICF.
I do know of couple IntegraSpec Hotel owners that are very happy with the form and the time frame the ICF was completed.
In short I believe GC’s are just unhappy folks, “ at least on the job site”
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Eldon Howe<br>Howe Construction
[email protected]
<br><br>Total Concrete Homes provide positive cash flow , DAY ONE . |
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BrucePolycrete
Advanced Member
Posts:524
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| 04 Mar 2011 11:52 AM |
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I imagine that you're right about that. Cheers. |
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TexasICF
Advanced Member
Posts:622
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| 04 Mar 2011 12:26 PM |
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ICF372, Check out this timelapse of this Hilton Garden Inn (bottom right corner of first page on http://www.futurestone.com/ ). This job (a few years ago) went up fast on the order of 5500 square feet per week for 10 weeks or so with an 8 man crew. You might notice that there's another hotel in the upper left corner of the same timelapse this is a five story Hampton Inn -- also a NUDURA hotel but it went quite a bit slower. What was the difference? The block and the installer were the same the difference was one GC was well organized and one wasn't. Regards. |
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eric monkman
Basic Member
Posts:262
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| 05 Mar 2011 02:46 PM |
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Posted By ICF372 on 04 Mar 2011 11:27 AM
In short I believe GC’s are just unhappy folks, “ at least on the job site”
Eldon.....could I ever go off on a tangent about GC's :-) Texas.. that hotel is an impressive piece of work. Hat's off to you. Seperate crew on the floor system ? |
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TexasICF
Advanced Member
Posts:622
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| 05 Mar 2011 03:08 PM |
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Eric, Yes. Separate crew on the floor system. You may have noticed that they are going up somewhat simultaneously. The job was under the direction (and contract) of the framer with an experienced installer team underneath (subcontracting to) him. This framer has since built his own crew (2 of his guys worked for the installer on this job). They've gone on to construct a great deal of ICF since. Regards. |
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