We are looking at a 16t garage door opening on a house we are building and was going to form it all with icf and a concrete/rebar header with stirrups etc. However when we were building it all today i realized that from top of buck to top of wall was only a 17 1/2 inch wall. I am a little concerned that this is a bit thin, especially since this is a bearing wall (10/12) pitch. can anyone tell me if i am correct or if it would be okay to do in icf, I will check the lintel tables but wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts. alternatively i could just do a pocket and use a lvl beam being as it is only a garage header. thanks nathan

Nathan, there are a number of factors that an engineer would have to consider in designing this lintel, not the least of which would be the thickness of the wall containing the lintel. If you are going to do this sans engineer, I would go the lvl beam route and not concrete and steel.

I agree with ICF, if only from a time and money situation. I have always felt that ICF headers are the 'weak link' in the system, and prefer to avoid them whenever possible. They are labor and material intensive and don't provide any significant advantages over cheaper and quicker alternatives.

Hey icfsalesandconstruction,

Forget the feelings around here... Do you really think an lvl beam can support more than a concrete beam...
ICF headers might take a tad bit more time to do - but we are not talking days but maybe half an hour...
anyhow... give me the lintel thickness and describe exactly whats going on top and i will give you the reinforcement...

I'm with Baldwin -- I wouldn't make it weaker just to save a little time. You might consult your block manufacturer's engineered lintel tables. If your particular lintel or your load requirements for that lintel are not provided --- e.g. 15" lintel is too small for this span you should consult an engineer. I wouldn't use the 18" lintel table since you have only 17 1/2". I just poured a 36' span opening the other day... and yes, of course it was engineered. P.S. if you aren't comfortable with these tables -- consult an engineer. Regards.

We always referred to the" Prescriptive Method for Insulating Concrete Forms in Residential Construction, First Edition"

go to:

http://www.huduser.org/portal/publications/destech/icf.html

cheaper and quicker alternatives

What do you prefer over concrete lintels in residential constructon, Wes?

"If" I can build an ICF lintel that is structurally adequate.......I prefer to use ICF.

Why? If it is within the living space, I want the total envelope to be complete. In other words, I want the insulation factor to be the same.

In a garage area, insulation is probably not a factor and for a 16' door you could use a LVL.

IcfHybrid,
I normally use LVL headers. Typically, faster, cheaper, and sizing is fairly straight forward.

What if it is a heated space (including heated garages)?

I am a purist, I do lintels in ICF. A couple times have used LVL or steel beam.

A few factors there that become critical. Bearing, what else is happening at the ends, what's going on above. 17" is deep enough if it's wide enough, too, and has good bearing. It's difficult (relative to some other methods) but worth it **if there is sufficient benefit** to be gained.
You said it was a bearing wall. Is it just for ceiling and roof? If that's it, and all that is wood, a wood (LVL) header is the way to go. A small steel beam is fairly easy.
And a lot of it simply comes down to what you just want to do.

Wood (LVL) is a great insulator. Depending on the size/style of LVL you have, you may be able to apply rigid styrofoam to both sides after it's installed. Your call?

good signature jerry. very true...

I'm building a attached garage with an apartment above to my ICF foundation home. I have a 8 ' distance from my basement floor to the underside of my joist. I want to install a min of 7' high doors so to have enough vertical clearance I'm using 6 w 24 i beams which I will box in and bolt to the I beam and have 7' '4.5" clearance to hang my door. I live in Alaska and thermal loss is a consideration but to have a garage if the most important factor. I'm sure a 6 or 8 inch I beam would be usable for your 17' garage door. The I beam I bought yesterday for this application cost @ $300 Good luck

What does the beam weigh per foot?

I'm glad the thread started up again as I'm getting into the design of my house. My garage height is 14" and is I use a ten foot door, that leaves me 48" of beam height available. Beam (wall) would be 12". Seems to me that concrete is especially correct in this case as the height of beam adds to it's strength, right? Spreads the compressive loads. If I used steel as the engineer wants, it's got to support all of that dead weight. Is my thinking correct? I did some rough calcs and it seems that with 1500 pound/ ft dead load and 800 live, it needs steel of ~ 2" if placed 3" off the bottom.

LarryT,
Yes, the deeper the lintel, the stronger. I did not see the garage door width or ICF cavity thickness. But the table R611.7(9) in the 2006 IRC may be what you need.

Brad, thanks for the reply. Door width is 16 feet, core thickness is 12". And I have 48" of height for the lintel. I'll looke up the reference you gave and see if that works. Larry

I use LVLs it gives me something to install the door hardware to without screwing around with attachments to the concrete or steel. I like the roller spring the best and this takes doing to install the hardware in a concrete lintel