Lefebvre02
New Member
Posts:1
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| 11 Jan 2012 08:31 PM |
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Hello,
This summer, I'm going to build my first ICF home. It is going to 2000 sq. ft. with 13 feet tall walls 6'' concrete. It will have 14 corners (in and out).
I'd like to get your input on the block I'm going to use. Nudura or ARXX?? Price is not a factor. Feel free to let me know any tips or things to be carefull about.
I can send you a PDF plan trough email; the file is 400kb
Thanks
Eric
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BrucePolycrete
Advanced Member
Posts:524
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| 11 Jan 2012 08:36 PM |
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Polycrete Big Block. www.polycreteusa.com |
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Chris Johnson
Advanced Member
Posts:878
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| 11 Jan 2012 08:41 PM |
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Where is each distributor located in proximity to your project? How are each for tech support? Is either a stocking distributor or just order as you order, i.e. if your short something can you get in it a timely fashion, if you have left over can it be returned? Does either have bracing for you to rent for your project?
Nudura will require 8.5 courses plus a height adjuster
ARXX will require 9.5 courses (your buying 10) so more waste since the block is not reversible, top half of the block is wasted, so you may want to adjust your wall height either up or down of possible.
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| Chris Johnson - Pro ICF<br>North of 49 |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 11 Jan 2012 10:30 PM |
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Eric,
Just curious, but are your choices limited to two brand names? Are you building in the Southeast? |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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jeepster
Basic Member
Posts:153
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| 11 Jan 2012 10:40 PM |
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What I like about Nudura is that the blocks vertically lock together. There's no compression and no float. If your footing is level, the block will stack level and true. With a wall that height, you'd need 12' braces. Nudura does rent these by the week at a pretty good rate. I'd be interested in see your plan. jeepster at siu dot edu. |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
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| 12 Jan 2012 01:02 AM |
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I just finished using the ARXX blocks. Looked at a few others, including Logix, but have only used the ARXX. I was very happy with them and felt I could do anything with them I wanted to do. I was continually impressed by their simplicity and versatility. I can't recall finding even one way in which I thought they should be improved. They have the crosswebs exposed on the side instead of buried beneath some foam. Can't imagine using blocks with hidden webs, although I'm sure you can get used to anything.
I am impressed with the printed technical materials Nudura has. They went into more detail about how ICF is used with utilities and services, although much of that can be applied to any ICF system. |
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TexasICF
Advanced Member
Posts:622
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| 12 Jan 2012 08:13 AM |
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Eric,
I will be glad to look at your drawings if you like. Here are some considerations.
Nudura is (96"x18") or 12 square feet per block and ARXX is (48"x16.75") or 5.58 square feet per block. There is no significant coursing advantage to either as Jeepster or Chris pointed out (you will have a little waste either way). The job isn't tall enough for the extra course of ARXX to slow you down much.
The locking furring strip is an important feature and coupled with the 8' long block help correct minor slab imperfections by spanning over low spots.
They are both 8" O.C. which is a plus (depending on your rebar schedule). More importantly, they both have an interior vertical drainage plain -- there's only a few out there with that and it's a big deal to some architects. It's a negative if you plan to take the foam off after pour for some reason.
If you have an EFIS exterior (synthetic stucco) you will want to either use Nudura or use the ARXX type with webs 1/2" below the surface of the foam -- you don't want different thermal expansion rates on the surface of the wall.
I've done over a 1M square feet of Nudura and have not actually done ARXX but it a good block and been around for a long time. It's a relief to be comparing two good products instead of ICF vs. wood or whatever. Regards. |
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jeepster
Basic Member
Posts:153
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| 12 Jan 2012 08:14 AM |
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They have the crosswebs exposed on the side instead of buried beneath some foam. Can't imagine using blocks with hidden webs I'm glad Nudura has their webs buried 1/2". On areas where there was a high spot or some misalignment, it is easy to run the rasp across the surface and knock down the block. If the web was exposed, then you'd have to shave your "stud" off, which would have been a real pain, not to mention the fact that you'd lose your screwing surface. |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
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| 12 Jan 2012 09:46 AM |
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If the web was exposed, then you'd have to shave your "stud" off, which would have been a real pain, not to mention the fact that you'd lose your screwing surface. Haven't seen large numbers of any other block, but I didn't see a single ARXX block (out of thousands) with a QC issue. Having been involved in manufacturing a long time, I was looking, but the blocks were perfect in all ways. Maybe you are talking about high spots or misalignment from builder error. Because the ARXX blocks have web every 8", it probably wouldn't hurt if you had to buzz one off every so often to fix a mistake. I've been thankful several times for the visible web. Like when you are having to get a new subcontractor on who hasn't worked with ICF before. They always seem comforted to be able see the anchor points. |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
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| 12 Jan 2012 09:54 AM |
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More importantly, they both have an interior vertical drainage plain Is that the vertical channels on the inside face? I wondered what those were for. |
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jeepster
Basic Member
Posts:153
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| 12 Jan 2012 10:16 AM |
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Posted By ICFHybrid on 12 Jan 2012 09:46 AM
If the web was exposed, then you'd have to shave your "stud" off, which would have been a real pain, not to mention the fact that you'd lose your screwing surface. Maybe you are talking about high spots or misalignment from builder error.
Bingo. It happens and it doesn't take much for products like cement fiber siding to show imperfections. The same would hold true for EIFS. Those guys rasp quite a bit to make a wall nice and flat. |
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BrucePolycrete
Advanced Member
Posts:524
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| 12 Jan 2012 10:32 AM |
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No need to rasp a Polycrete wall. Recent Intertek forming capacity test results show ZERO deformation on a 9-5/8" thick concrete core wall. Steel reinforcement inside the foam stands up to 1600 lbs per square foot of lateral pressure.No bulging, no scalloping, no snaking, no blow-outs. |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
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| 12 Jan 2012 10:33 AM |
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I suppose you could fur out instead of rasping. Actually, this would explain what happened when the fiber cement subs came out to bid. They kept asking about furring and I couldn't understand what they were talking about, so finally, I asked them to show me. We went over and looked at a big wall.
Nothing there - straight.
Looked at the next one. Hmmmm....straight, too.
They were all straight. I guess the subs just assumed they would have to correct before they even looked at the structure, but now I know what the value of burying the webs is. I wouldn't be afraid of using ARXX again. Chalk lines and lasers are not wasted on ICF builds. Is it possible that having the hard web surfaces exposed helps you get a straighter wall in the first place? |
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BrucePolycrete
Advanced Member
Posts:524
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| 12 Jan 2012 10:39 AM |
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Yes, having the hard web surface helps you get a straighter wall. That's because the support provided by the "stud" surface is supporting a thicker piece of foam. The thicker piece of foam (even 1/2")is less likely to bulge. |
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ColoICF
New Member
Posts:34
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| 12 Jan 2012 12:35 PM |
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Hi Eric.
I have built a fair number of projects with both forms. In the end either one will create a good structure (if correctly installed).
Check around for local suppliers, ask for names of some of their customers, talk with the customers to see if they're happy with the product and dealer support. Then go to it!
Where are planning to build?
FM |
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TexasICF
Advanced Member
Posts:622
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| 12 Jan 2012 01:25 PM |
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ICF manufacturers generally recess webs to avoid having different coefficients of thermal expansion on the surface thus allowing direct EFIS/ Stucco without cracking.
It's very easy to keep a wall straight with Nudura and I would be willing to bet that it's very easy to do with ARXX. Regards |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 15 Jan 2012 01:59 AM |
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Why are Nudura blocks colored with a blue tint to them, instead of the typical white EPS color?
What I like about Nudura ICF is that the ICF blocks lock together.
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 15 Jan 2012 07:49 AM |
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To distinguish which type of Expanded PolyStyrene (EPS). For Nudura, Blue is Type 1, Green is Type 2, White is Type 3.
See http://www.nudura.com/Libraries/Bro....sflb.ashx
There are several types of EPS. See http://www.epsmolders.org/4-ftc.html for a list of a few. Read about the compressive strength increasing with density. Also see http://www.buildings.com/ArticleDet...D=8498#top for more types and compressive strengths.
You might want to ask your engineer if you should use Type 1 or Type 2 under the footer to absorb some minor earthquake vibrations and to insulate it. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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TexasICF
Advanced Member
Posts:622
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| 15 Jan 2012 03:43 PM |
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Posted By Alton on 15 Jan 2012 07:49 AM
To distinguish which type of Expanded PolyStyrene (EPS). For Nudura, Blue is Type 1, Green is Type 2, White is Type 3.
See http://www.nudura.com/Libraries/Bro....sflb.ashx
There are several types of EPS. See http://www.epsmolders.org/4-ftc.html for a list of a few. Read about the compressive strength increasing with density. Also see http://www.buildings.com/ArticleDet...D=8498#top for more types and compressive strengths.
You might want to ask your engineer if you should use Type 1 or Type 2 under the footer to absorb some minor earthquake vibrations and to insulate it. With all due respect, I would like to clarify a couple of things in this post. There are 12 EPS Types (classification) used to describe EPS that fall under ASTM C578. By a significant margin ICFs are predominately and generally type II (including Nudura and ARXX). Type III is not longer produced and hasn't been for some time. There is no correlation between Types and color except that many of the extruded types are colored for branding purposes. Type II is white. Nudura and a small number of ICF manufactures add color. This is actually both for branding purposes as well as to knock down the glare (snow blind effect) produced by pure white. Density of Type II is between 1.35 and 1.80 pcf (pounds per cubic foot). http://www.epsmolders.org/PDF_FILES/C578%20Chart.pdf |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 15 Jan 2012 03:53 PM |
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Thanks for going into more detail. I was too brief when speaking about color regarding Nudura forms but I knew Lbear would either dig deeper or e-mail me as usual. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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