I'm soon going to prepare door and window frames for this ICF house that I'm building diy.   I'm using 4" core blocks which means the walls will be 9" thick total.   Here are a few decisions I need to make.


- purchase right angle 90 degree metal brackets specially made for ICF door and window frames.   price with shipping would be about $120
vs
- use 2x4's as vertical/horizontal braces.  price would be about $20 plus alot more labor than using brackets


- use 2x8's (7.5 actually) with no wood sticking out
vs
- use 2x10's (9.5 actually) with about 0.5 sticking out in the interior
vs
- use 2x10's (9.5 actually) with about 0.5 sticking out in the exterior
vs
- use 2x10's (9.5 actually) with 2x12's (11.5 actually) for window sills

I would like to hear your thoughts and opinions on these two matters.

Use 2x6 (5.5" wide) and rip down to a full 4" wide. Insert into foam cavity and attach foam to wood buck with 3-1/2" screws and 2" EIFS washers every 8".

Arkie has a good thermal solution. Incidentally, a 2x10 is 9 1/4 wide and a 2x12 is 11 1/4 wide and this is the why Nudura has these odd widths but never mind - I would do the arkie approach or rip to correct size. Overhang is not a good idea.

What they said, and save the rippings for shoring the window openings.

What do you attach the window and door fins to with Arkie's method?

If I rip 4" and insert into foam cavity (arkie idea) I am at a loss how to attach the vinyl window after the thing is done.

When TexasICF suggests correct size I understand that to mean 9"? So that means rip .5 inch off of a 2x10. That would be a perfect fit. Since I am going to use 3/4" furring strips/radiant barrier/metal siding on the outside, I can let it overhang exterior instead of ripping by the way. Ripping boards for 5 windows and 2 doors is alot of work. I'm lazy

You could always use Nudura's EasyBuck system.

Jacktca, where are you located - where a 2x12 is 11 1/2" and not 11 1/4"?

Granted it really should be 12". . Regards.

Posted By jacktca on 16 Feb 2012 08:34 PM
If I rip 4" and insert into foam cavity (arkie idea) I am at a loss how to attach the vinyl window after the thing is done.
 

Mount the window flange over the external foam and screw through the foam with 3-1/2" screws into the wood buck. This works better if you have higher density 2# EPS foam in your ICF which has ~double the compressive strength of the more typical 1.5# density EPS.

If you don't feel comfortable with that, you can make your window buck 1-1/2" larger than the window rough opening, then after the pour is completed, line the inside of the window cavity with 3/4" plywood cut to the exact width of your ICF forms, i.e. 9".  That will give you something to screw/nail your window frame and casing to.  The advantage of plywood here is that it will remain flat and won't cup or bow like 2x lumber.

Posted By jacktca on 16 Feb 2012 08:34 PM

When TexasICF suggests correct size I understand that to mean 9"? So that means rip .5 inch off of a 2x10. 

No, that means rip 1/4" off a 2x10 which is 9-1/4" wide.  After you get above a 2x6 which is 5-1/2" wide, the 2x dimensional lumber is 3/4" shy of the nominal width, i.e 2x8 = 7-1/4", 2x12 = 11-1/4", etc.  These are dry measurements.  Sometimes wet treated lumber will be greater in width than this, but as it dries it will shrink back to this size, give or take a bit.

I like this idea of 3.5" screws.

I have Integraspec blocks. I can buy styrofoam bucks. The problem is how to attach windows and doors to styrofoam? Specs say there are "straps" but the pictures don't show where they are at. Also the guy who is going to rent braces to me told me that the better way to do window/door frames is to use wood.

Mount the window flange over the external foam and screw through the foam with 3-1/2" screws into the wood buck

How W-I-D-E of a window have you ever done this with and do the mfrs consider this adequate for warranty?

Posted By jacktca on 16 Feb 2012 06:57 PM

I would like to hear your thoughts and opinions on these two matters.

Here's a few threads from the past about windows and bucks. These are just the ones I chimed in on. There's bound to be others. As you can see this topic has been hashed over quite a bit through the years.

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/4/aft/63368/afv/topic/afpgj/1/Default.aspx#46071

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/4/aft/60495/afv/topic/afpgj/1/Default.aspx#43729

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/4/aft/50054/afv/topic/afpgj/2/Default.aspx#35601

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/4/aft/38023/afv/topic/afpgj/4/Default.aspx#25167

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/4/aft/32465/afv/topic/afpgj/1/Default.aspx#20296

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/4/aft/31654/afv/topic/afpgj/5/Default.aspx#19663

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/4/aft/29624/afv/topic/afpgj/4/Default.aspx#17671

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/4/aft/28280/afv/topic/afpgj/2/Default.aspx#16507

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/4/aft/26011/afv/topic/afpgj/1/Default.aspx#14517

Another thing - choose your windows before you build the bucks and pour the walls. Window sizes are not uniform across the various brands. A Pella won't fit in a rough opening sized for an Andersen. Or, did we discuss this already a few weeks ago?

I hear you but... The search for this forum does not work.  Otherwise I would use it. 

Posted By jacktca on 17 Feb 2012 01:40 PM
I hear you but... The search for this forum does not work.  Otherwise I would use it. 

What kind of problem are you having with the search function? I found all those links above with the words 'window' and 'buck' with 'all keywords' selected and 'dmaceld' as the user.

BUCKS:

My 2 cents input on this thread is to cut the lumber to the inside dimension of the form (8", 6", etc.) and install the windows with 3.5" screws. Depending on what look you want your windows to have, I have had customers taper the outside form on a 45 degree angle to the outside edge of the inserted lumber. That leaves you with the width of the lumber to attach your windows. The upside to screwing thru the foam is the thermal break and I see no issue with this method. Once you foam the windows from inside there is no way for the window to move, and you have a great air seal and insulation value around your windows right out to the building exterior.

WEBSITE FORMAT:

I am not keen on the search engine on this site either since the search could produce a thread of 20 pages which contain the search words. I make this suggested format change. Could there be sublevels of choices to post a thread question, so as to focus comments and input? (Wouldn't something like this format be easier to quickly go to the specific topics??)

ICF
windows
bucks
finishing
concrete
slump
alternative additives (plasticizers ... )
vibrating
internal
head size
external
Wallbrator, etc.

(This is left justfied but I wanted it to look like this: A drop down window system should work for sub levels.)

ICF
.......windows
.............bucks
.............finishing
........concrete
.............slump
.............alternative additives (plasticizers ... )
.............vibrating
...................internal
.........................head size
...................external
.........................Wallbrator, etc.

Posted By dmaceld on 17 Feb 2012 02:13 PM

Posted By jacktca on 17 Feb 2012 01:40 PM
I hear you but... The search for this forum does not work.  Otherwise I would use it. 

What kind of problem are you having with the search function? I found all those links above with the words 'window' and 'buck' with 'all keywords' selected and 'dmaceld' as the user.

I finally ran into some of the search problems last night. You're right, the search function has problems. There is hope though. I sent an email directly to someone in charge of the forum at Build Central. He said he would see if he can get someone to look at it.

This forum is an ancillary activity of Build Central, and costs them money. As of Sept 2011 there is no dedicated forum administrator.

Somewhere way back I posted how I do window bucks, pretty simple. A 2x6 ripped in half on a 45 angle A piece of 3/4" plywood ripped to the width of the block to hold the pieces together. The concrete locks into the 45 angle of the 2x, no concern of twisting or checking. When the pump truck arrives and is setting up, we remove all the plywood from the bottom of the buck, as soon as the concrete is placed there and full, we recap it and away we go