Farmboy
Basic Member
Posts:356
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smartwall
Veteran Member
Posts:1209
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| 02 Mar 2012 09:43 AM |
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Farmboy, Thanks for the heads-up . It's nice to see a company bring out new products and not standing pat. |
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NFC
New Member
Posts:59
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| 02 Mar 2012 12:57 PM |
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Those extra insulation blocks are cool, but I bet they are expensive. Which side of the wall should they go on? |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 02 Mar 2012 05:03 PM |
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What about the spaces between the energy sticks? I understand why the company places the sticks inside instead of outside but won't the placement inside allow energy to escape through the gaps? I base this on the fact that we always tell everyone that wants to install at least 2" of foam board on the outside of the wall to install two layers and stagger the joints.
Wouldn't Qual-Lock thicker forms be more energy conserving with the same thickness? Just curious. I am not picking on Fox. I am happy to see companies trying to increase the R-value of their wall systems. Enquiring minds want to know. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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Chris Johnson
Advanced Member
Posts:878
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| 02 Mar 2012 05:51 PM |
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Forget R-value, can someone calculate the U/K values with and without the extra foam for me? We know Europe uses the thicker on one side foam, but not so much here in North America.
I already know what a regular 6" ICF form filled with concrete has for a U/K value, I just want to see what someone else comes up with as well how much better it is with the thicker foam, does the additional cost of product offset the energy costs? If so, how much (%) per month on average |
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| Chris Johnson - Pro ICF<br>North of 49 |
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BrucePolycrete
Advanced Member
Posts:524
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| 02 Mar 2012 07:09 PM |
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The video makes it look pretty cool. It also looks a bit labor intensive, and the lack of continuity likely detracts from the performance.Polycrete can make up to 12" foam thickness, but it's a pain in the neck and we'd prefer not to. If you want to add supplemental foam to a Polycrete wall, use 2' x 8' sheets and mount them vertically using a metal "Z" channel. That attaches the supplemental foam to the ICF and yields an attachment point on the exterior surface of the wall.The materials cost a little more, but you go very fast and have a very nice final product that your exterior finishing guys are going to be quite happy to work with. |
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smartwall
Veteran Member
Posts:1209
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| 03 Mar 2012 09:27 AM |
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i think they are trying to increase the effective r-value while maintaining a the attachment near the surface. As far as the gaps between the inserts, someone will have to show me a insulation product that doen't have seams. Quad Lock is 48" x 12" this has seams, Polycrete has seams. Install a exterior foam and you have seams as well as screws or nails holding it in place. What's the conductive loss from the fasteners and the seams. As stated here it will depend on the cost associated with the product but I like the thought process. |
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ICFconstruction
Veteran Member
Posts:1324
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| 04 Mar 2012 09:28 PM |
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I like the look of the energy sticks too. I would think that concrete may not even fill the space in between, it is narrow and partially taken up by the ties. |
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| Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 04 Mar 2012 10:17 PM |
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Posted By ICFconstruction on 04 Mar 2012 09:28 PM
I like the look of the energy sticks too. I would think that concrete may not even fill the space in between, it is narrow and partially taken up by the ties. If the crack between the inserts is sealed well enough, then it might have an R-value of 1. I am talking only about the gap between the inserts. That is my concern. If the gap has only an R-value of 1, then what would be the whole wall R-value? It probably will be lower than expected since the inserts are not that wide. Maybe it is time to hot-box test the block with the inserts to get the whole wall R-value. I am not picking on this brand. As Chris has told me, maybe I am thinking too much. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 05 Mar 2012 04:26 AM |
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I think the gaps between the ties would effect the R-Value in the final total calculation. Not by a whole lot but it would have to be calculated into the equation.
My question is that one has to buy the WIDER block to accommodate the inserts. The wider blocks cost more money and in addition to that, I wonder what those inserts cost?
So if you take the ICF block at R-23 and add the insert at R-9, you have a R-32. Of course depending on the climate, when does it become diminishing returns?
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ICFconstruction
Veteran Member
Posts:1324
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| 05 Mar 2012 07:21 AM |
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if the gaps would be .25 inch, that would be .375 per foot. Not a lot.
The energy stick and added cost of the wider form would be diminishing return as compared to the ICF system itself, but people will do it anyway.
How about add InSoFast to the outside, 2" of eps solid and attachment points. Probably go on quicker too. |
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| Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net |
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smartwall
Veteran Member
Posts:1209
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| 05 Mar 2012 11:19 AM |
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I think the price difference between the 6" and 8" block is somewhere around $.30 per block |
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FBBP
Veteran Member
Posts:1215
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| 06 Mar 2012 11:30 PM |
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Would there be any negative structural issues because the plastic web is no supported by concrete all the way? Does that portion of the web still have the same strength if a heavy exterior cladding is used? If there is any lateral load applied at 90º to the web? I suspect the sticks might prevent the racking action but we still have that unsupported piece. |
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Chris Johnson
Advanced Member
Posts:878
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| 06 Mar 2012 11:36 PM |
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Posted By smartwall on 05 Mar 2012 11:19 AM
I think the price difference between the 6" and 8" block is somewhere around $.30 per block
Depends who's block you buy, some are the same price for 6, 8 and 10" |
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| Chris Johnson - Pro ICF<br>North of 49 |
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