We are thinking of purchasing a Makita cordless concrete vibrator. Has anyone used these ? Thoughts ? Thank you

Buy lots of batteries too.

I would call it a desperate tool, i.e. your regular corded vibrator breaks, generator runs out of fuel, etc...or a tool for anyone who needs to just own tools because they can.

I don't know if Mikita makes one or not but I would suggest getting a gas powered "cordless" they work great. Chris is right, you're going to need tons of batteries to get any value out of it. Regards.

Great for making concrete countertops otherwise worthless

Thank you. We were going to put it in our rental program. We are leaning towards gas power now. Thanks again

I guess everyone has thier own opinion.  I have the makita vibrator with 8' extension.  I think it works great.  I used it on my ICF basement and only went through one battery per lift.  The batteries charge in less than 20 minutes, so no big deal.  I also used it when pouring my basement slap, porch slabs, footers, porch steps, etc. 

Personally I love it and am glad I purchased it.

Some would argue that a pencil vibrator won't consolidate concrete in an ICF wall, and personally I would agree.  That is what my block manufacture requred so that is what I used.  I don't see any difference in power between using the makita pencil and an electic pencil.

Just my opinion.  I would get it.

I'll do this one more time. From the Oztec website. One inch pencil vibrator has an area of influence of 4". Meaning that it only vibrates 4" around its's diameter. They recomend that you drop the vibrator every 6" in order to consolidate the concrete. That means on a 8' high wall if you do 3 lifts the way I pour my jobs then on a 200 lin ft wall you would have to insert the vibrator 300 times during the pour. Plus they say the rate that you can consolidate conrete per hour is 2-4 yards. Is there anyone who pours concrete at this rate? I think not. The pencil vibrator recomendation came as a result of inconsistent molding back in the dark days of the products birth. I have used 2.5 " vibators with no problems. Normally I like at least a 1.75 ". Most blocks on the market can take a pretty good pounding with a vibrator. I would be suspicious of a block manufacturer that still recomends a pencil vibrator. I talked to a potential customer about an icf job that he had installed last year and the customer checked for voids and found a bunch. He was gun shy about using the product. This is the problem with the icf business, bad information. People think that a 6 slump concrete is so runny that it will automatically fill in all voids with little effort. The one feature that makes the difference in the ability of a block to deliver a fully consolidated wall is the webs. The bigger and more aggressive the webs the harder or in some cases the impossibility of a fully consolidated wall. I won't name names but there are some blocks that I would not attempt to pour. If you don't think the web profile is  important then why did ARXX go to the trouble of changing it's web a couple of years ago. I repeat my original statement that for the purposes of consolidating an icf a pencil vibrator is worthless.  If you want to do your own build with a pencil vibrator and end up with voids so be it but I give my customers hopefully better advice than that, if they choose to use a framing hammer and a block of wood that's their choice.  But to see misleading info.  on this site and not say anything would be a mistake.  Go to the Oztec website , read for yourelf and make an informed decision.

Smartwall,
 
I used to pour vertical concrete with the old school forms back in the day.  If we would have showed up with a pencil vibrator, I'm sure we would have been laughed off the job.  I agree 100% with your statements.  I attended a training class from Logix before I built my DIY ICF basement, the trainer clearly stated do not use anything larger than a pencil.  It was my first job, so I certainly wasn't going to go against his judgement. 

After working with the product, those blocks could have handeled it.  If I had it to do all over again I would have used a larger vibrator and poured 3 feet/hour lifts.  I haven't had any issues or anything, but I'm sure the concrete isn't as consolidated as it could have been.  I also seriously doubt that for a residential application like mine, it won't make any difference. 

I still like the pencil vibrator for floors, steps, footers, etc.  Would buy again for sure, great product.

Not trying to jump on your case but the info. comming from some of the manufacturers is wrong. They don't want their product to have a blowout because the pump guy will tell the next 50 customers that icf's don't work. Last problem I had was from an owner operator pump guy who told the concrete truck drivers that I wanted a 8 slump and before I found out we had a bottom corner slightly rotate causing a leak. I went over to the driver and asked him what slump he had and he said 8 as requested by the pump operator. The rest of the trucks had a 5 when delivered as I requested end of problem. I still have distributors that I compete with telling people that they have an r-50 block and the only rebar requirement is every course horizontally. If your a newbie doing a basement for yourself use a 8" block the pour will go easier and the rebar requirement is lighter, which will allow the concrete to flow easier. A 6" block should not be used by a first timer. The flow is too quick and the restricted cavity will almost certainly create voids. I did my first icf for my own house in 1989 and learned some valuable lessons. Icf's are a great product, but can be used improperly by well intentioned people as well as some not so well intentioned people. The foam can hide a multitude of sins.

I agree with smart wall.

I would like to add that you can get good use of those small battery powered vibrators. In areas such as brick ledges. If the bricks have ICF above. In these cases, if I can't access the brick ledge during the pour, I'll sometimes chamfer the bottom inside ICF panel above the brick ledge.

This will allow a smooth flow of concrete down to the brick ledge, still using a larger vibrator.

Smartwall -

What I have been told is that one should NEVER trust the concrete company to deliver the correct product and that is should ALWAYS be tested on site to make sure the correct slump is there. Unless you have a great relationship with the concrete company and you trust that they won't rip you off.

What do you recommend for vibrating a wall?

The Makita cordless vibrator was an excellent tool. It worked very well for us on a 6" form build with 11' walls and lots of steel. It had plenty of influence to do the job. I think we might have used two batteries on one lift, but on the others it only took one.

Your number one tool on ICF pours is getting the mixture right, using a water-reducing mixture or self-consolidating concrete mix. Secondly, you want to WATCH where you place the concrete, not just "fill up" the form. Finally, using the pencil vibrator judiciously in difficult areas like corners or areas you are unsure of is the way to go.

If you are presiding over your first ICF pour, do your research on the proper concrete mix. If you have never witnessed it being done right, I also highly recommend hiring an experienced person with a proven track record to do your pour. Watch and learn from them.

Pouring one this afternoon. Using an 1.75" vibrator and mid range water reducer in a 6" form with verts every 10",3 slump delivered 35% fly ash

Pour went perfect. 1 hour and 10 minutes from start to finish. 24 yds with three men.  Poured three lifts with Fox Blocks had a 8 slump with water reducer,  love those block locks

Posted By smartwall on 02 Jun 2012 09:57 AM
Pour went perfect. 1 hour and 10 minutes from start to finish. 24 yds with three men.  Poured three lifts with Fox Blocks had a 8 slump with water reducer,  love those block locks

So you got your concrete delivered at a 3 slump and added water to get an 8 slump?  When you refer to block locks, do you mean the clips that lock the webs of adjoining block together?  To avoid zip-ties?  Did you still use your 1-3/4" vibrator with an 8 slump??  6" blocks I could trust, but I'd be scared to do this on an 8" wall.  Also, with only three men, I feel sorry for the guy humping the vibrator.

Posted By smartwall on 02 Jun 2012 09:57 AM
Pour went perfect. 1 hour and 10 minutes from start to finish. 24 yds with three men.  Poured three lifts with Fox Blocks had a 8 slump with water reducer,  love those block locks

Would not watering down the pour at the job site cause strength issues?

The concrete is delivered as a 3 slump then the water reducer is added to bring the slump to a 8. You would have to be an idiot to take a 3 slump to an 8 by adding water. The locks are wire ties bent to lock the webs together. It makes all the difference in the world as far as the overall stength of the wall as well as the straightness of the wall as you build. With this mix we only vibrated the first lift to make sure we didn't get gravelling on top of the footing. When I told the vibrator dude that he was done he was disappointed.  If I was pouring an 8" wall I would go with a number 3 reducer instead of a number 5 which is a mid range.

Just having the 35% fly ash component is going to contribute a whole lot to the flowability, freeing up some of the water right there. Fly ash is much more "slippery" than the Portland Cement component it replaces. When you control the water and the slump, I got some of the hardest concrete I have ever seen. The footings are as tough as flint and the walls nearly so.

We did all our ICF pours with 7 guys. Thats one operating the pump, one emptying the mixers into the hopper, one placing the cement, one standing by with the vibrator and the rest "supervising" and eating donuts. IF you've done your forms and ordered your mix correctly, you shouldn't have to be vibrating everywhere. Look closely at our end of that manpower equation which was admittedly a bit tongue-in-cheek, but there were only really two guys doing the pour. There is one with the pump tube placing everything and one, with the vibrator, following up, checking string lines, inspecting the outsides and vibrating a bit, only when necessary.

I thought Nudura was the only ICF that had the locking tabs? I looked at Fox Blocks and they did not have them. Did they change their design recently?

In the name of flow ability, mixes that are watered down rear their ugly heads later on. Case-in-point, a commercial courthouse building costing $34MIL has been rendered uninhabitable due to the failing concrete.

Oregon Structure Failed Engineering Tests

Turns out the contractor used a watery mix and this caused the concrete structure to start to crumble and fail. It will have to be demolished. $34MIL in the toilet, taxpayer toilet that is.

I've known of an ICF pour that when they removed the EPS a month later, the concrete crumbled when tested. The contractors blamed the concrete plant and the concrete plant blamed the contractor. The poor homeowner is always left holding the ball.

The problem was the mix was NEVER tested when it arrived on the job site.

I wonder how many bad pours there are out there but the people just don't know it as of yet??

Has anyone here experienced a bad concrete mix?