meddle
New Member
Posts:5
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| 21 Feb 2013 04:46 PM |
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Hello everyone, great to see all the available knowledge here.
We are looking to buy a new home. It's approximately 4000 sq ft. The builder quoted us 43 per lineal foot to do just the basement in ICFs. Does this sound crazy high to anyone? Also would there even be any advantage to building just the basement with ICFs?
We live in SE PA and my goal is really just to have our house be as immune to natural disasters and such as possible as well as saving money down the road in heating/cooling and living greener.
If anyone can think of any other tips to improving the home in this way feel free to educate me. I've also been told that a safe room in an ICF basement is redundant. My wife is starting to think we are getting bad info from some of these builders.
Thanks for your time in advance. |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 21 Feb 2013 05:57 PM |
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The height and thickness of the basement walls will influence the cost per lineal foot. How tall and thick are the walls? In my area, an 8" thick 10' tall reinforced concrete wall would cost around $120 per lineal foot. $43 per lineal foot does not sound right to me for ICF.
I think safe rooms (storm shelters) should have a roof as strong as the walls. I do not consider that using the floor trusses or floor joists to form the roof of a safe room as being sufficient. I agree that in some cases that just being in the basement during a storm is much better than the main floor but a basement cannot be called a safe room. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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meddle
New Member
Posts:5
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| 21 Feb 2013 06:47 PM |
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Thanks Alton, I am obviously going to query further but can you think of any reasons one would do only a basement in ICF? Thx again. |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
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| 21 Feb 2013 07:11 PM |
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ut can you think of any reasons one would do only a basement in ICF It's not uncommon because the builder wants to have an insulated foundation, but doesn't want to deal with aboveground penetrations like windows and doors and utilities. For mine, I did an ICF basement and first level and used an insulated concrete form for the floor as well. |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
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| 21 Feb 2013 07:21 PM |
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The builder quoted us 43 per lineal foot to do just the basement in ICFs. Does this sound crazy high to anyone? ICF is commonly quoted in SQUARE feet of wall. In other words, 1 linear foot of 10' basement wall would be 10 SQUARE Feet. Around here you are at $18 or more, so your 1 linear foot of wall would be $180-$200. |
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meddle
New Member
Posts:5
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| 21 Feb 2013 07:45 PM |
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Posted By ICFHybrid on 21 Feb 2013 07:21 PM
The builder quoted us 43 per lineal foot to do just the basement in ICFs. Does this sound crazy high to anyone? ICF is commonly quoted in SQUARE feet of wall. In other words, 1 linear foot of 10' basement wall would be 10 SQUARE Feet. Around here you are at $18 or more, so your 1 linear foot of wall would be $180-$200.
Thank you for the info (in both posts). Would you care to expand on your thinking in regard to your placement of ICF in your home? I am especially curious about the floor, is that something commonly done? |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 21 Feb 2013 08:41 PM |
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Since you will be doing a basement, check with the local code official about whether you should takes steps to keep radon gas out of the house. Easier to mitigate radon during construction than afterwards. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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theInvincible
New Member
Posts:74
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| 21 Feb 2013 09:47 PM |
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I calculated linear foot price of my 12' basement walls. It is 120 cad. I did all the work myself. I did not include footings, basement slab and excavation. |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
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| 21 Feb 2013 11:18 PM |
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Would you care to expand on your thinking in regard to your placement of ICF in your home? I have a modern design with some high walls that rise 32 feet above ground. Combined with the basement that would have been in excess of 40' in height for some walls and that was just too "special" for residential construction around here. It was hard enough to find a good ICF subcontractor as it was. So, we opted to keep the ICF portions to about 25 feet or less in height and made the upper floor standard stick. We got the benefit of the ICF for the basement and main floors, which are the main living areas, anyway. The upper or third level floor just contains bedrooms. I am especially curious about the floor, is that something commonly done? It's done, but I would not say it is common in residential. Of three qualified ICF subs, only one was really comfortable with it. The brand used was Insuldeck, but I would probably go with QuadDeck on the second go-around. I think the ICF deck was easy to do and really like the results. I think some of the other guys just had a hard time wrapping their heads around overhead concrete. What it gave us was a concrete floor over basement in which to do radiant, soundproofing from basement to main floor, and tremendous seismic resistance. Putting the concrete membrane between the concrete walls makes for some tremendous strength. |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 22 Feb 2013 02:11 AM |
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Posted By meddle on 21 Feb 2013 04:46 PM
Hello everyone, great to see all the available knowledge here.
We are looking to buy a new home. It's approximately 4000 sq ft. The builder quoted us 43 per lineal foot to do just the basement in ICFs. Does this sound crazy high to anyone? Also would there even be any advantage to building just the basement with ICFs?
We live in SE PA and my goal is really just to have our house be as immune to natural disasters and such as possible as well as saving money down the road in heating/cooling and living greener.
If anyone can think of any other tips to improving the home in this way feel free to educate me. I've also been told that a safe room in an ICF basement is redundant. My wife is starting to think we are getting bad info from some of these builders.
Thanks for your time in advance.
First, most builders cannot be trusted, that is the sad reality. So proceed with caution. I am a little confused. You said you are looking to buy a new home but then you are looking to build with ICF? So are you deciding between the two; buying built or building new? If you want a bullet-proof or storm resistant home, ICF all the way up is the way to go. A concrete roof is ideal but not easy to pull off and is very design dependent. A flat roof is much easier to do in concrete but dealing with roof leaks on a flat roof are common. A SCIP roof is also an alternative. Avoid wood walls or as some say "bonfire construction" for structural walls if you want disaster resistance. You basically want to create a "Box Fame" construction which uses reinforced concrete walls, floors and roof. All which interconnect with each other to form a box type of structure. These have been scientifically proven to resist tornadoes, hurricanes and earthquakes. Find a COMPETENT ICF contractor. One that has done dozens upon dozens of homes. This is a GREAT SITE for more info: CLICK HERE |
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lzerarc
Basic Member
Posts:423
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| 22 Feb 2013 07:42 AM |
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Posted By Lbear on 22 Feb 2013 02:11 AM
First, most builders cannot be trusted, that is the sad reality. So proceed with caution.
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Find a COMPETENT ICF contractor. One that has done dozens upon dozens of homes.
I am not a contractor, however I deal with multiple contractors from multiple different companies, trades and disciplines on multiple different projects every single day. Your blanket comment about contractors is certainly not fair in any way at all. THere are very very few I know that I would 'not trust' or rely on to do a good job. Everyone makes mistakes, every contractor I know of has made some sort of mistake on my projects. However most are more than willing to do what it takes to correct it. Contractors arent always out to get you, Lbear. Also most contactors arent as good at Google or "Googlesmart" as you are either.
And finally, they dont need to have done "dozens upon dozens" of ICF projects. I have done sevearl ICF projects with first time or near first time contractors and they have all turned out perfectly fine. My own house I did the ICF 100% DIY...never done before, again, didnt have an issue. If someone CARES to do a good job, then a good job will usually be achieved regardless of how many times they have done it before. |
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BrucePolycrete
Advanced Member
Posts:524
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| 22 Feb 2013 09:08 AM |
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Meddle, please check out the private message I sent you last evening. Bruce
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
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| 22 Feb 2013 09:13 AM |
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If someone CARES to do a good job, then a good job will usually be achieved regardless of how many times they have done it before. MOST people, including contractors, want to do a good job, but the real question is whether they are willing to consistently put out the personal effort to make it happen. My definition of a professional has long been someone who is willing to put the customer first and I've found that mighty scarce in construction. It can be difficult to measure that sort of thing up front so one more subjective measure might be how many successful builds they have behind them. Maybe that is what Lbear is talking about. |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
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| 22 Feb 2013 09:18 AM |
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Meddle, please check out the private message I sent you last evening. Bruce Bruce, I just can't help but thinking that your penchant for private mailing every potential customer is depriving the community at large of learning experiences. Is it possible that you could share your knowledge and experience with us in open forum? That might even be a service to newbies who have questions about some of these building products but who are lurking and not asking outright. |
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smartwall
Veteran Member
Posts:1209
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| 22 Feb 2013 10:02 AM |
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200 lin ft 8' high with footings waterproofing and parging about $24,000, includes floor |
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meddle
New Member
Posts:5
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| 22 Feb 2013 10:54 AM |
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Hey guys thanks for all of the help and mail. I'm starting to get a little downhearted about the whole thing. I'm certainly not rich and some of this stuff is absolutely gorgeous but I believe out of my league.
We're looking at new construction developments in Chester County PA and trying to stay in the 600k range. I may have to switch up and try to figure out ways of storm/weatherproofing a stick house because I just don't have the core knowledge or confidence in this area to achieve my goal (or the money). |
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dmaceld
Veteran Member
Posts:1465
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| 22 Feb 2013 11:37 AM |
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Posted By ICFHybrid on 22 Feb 2013 09:18 AM
Meddle, please check out the private message I sent you last evening. Bruce Bruce, I just can't help but thinking that your penchant for private mailing every potential customer is depriving the community at large of learning experiences. Is it possible that you could share your knowledge and experience with us in open forum? That might even be a service to newbies who have questions about some of these building products but who are lurking and not asking outright.
Actually, he's sparing the rest of us from his overt pitching of Polycrete as being the only ICF worth considering. I think he owns Polycrete. |
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| Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help! |
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dmaceld
Veteran Member
Posts:1465
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| 22 Feb 2013 11:42 AM |
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Posted By meddle on 22 Feb 2013 10:54 AM
Hey guys thanks for all of the help and mail. I'm starting to get a little downhearted about the whole thing. I'm certainly not rich and some of this stuff is absolutely gorgeous but I believe out of my league.
We're looking at new construction developments in Chester County PA and trying to stay in the 600k range. I may have to switch up and try to figure out ways of storm/weatherproofing a stick house because I just don't have the core knowledge or confidence in this area to achieve my goal (or the money).
Well, there is always the option of scaling back the size of your project to better fit the money available. In my book the choice between size plus fancy, or top quality, is a no brainer. Are you building this home to live in comfortably, or to show off proudly? |
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| Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help! |
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BrucePolycrete
Advanced Member
Posts:524
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| 22 Feb 2013 11:51 AM |
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I referred him to a local installer/builder. Danny Palmer of LaMarra Construction in Norristown, PA. XXX-XXX-XXXX @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ (Phone #s and email addresses are not allowed in forum posts)Now we'll see how long it takes for the administrator to take this down..... ;-)
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Chris Johnson
Advanced Member
Posts:878
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| 22 Feb 2013 12:39 PM |
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I believe you may have misunderstood the price, an 8' basement with an 8" ICF wall block and concrete alone exceeds $ 50.00 l/f and then you have to take into account rebar, bracing, etc. etc.
I am not familiar with pricing in your area, but depending on where lumber prices are falling and the current local economy (read - are the local conventional contractors busy or slow) should dictate ICF either a few percentage points higher or lower then conventional construction. The comforts and energy savings of an ICF home should be enough of a reason to build it better.
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| Chris Johnson - Pro ICF<br>North of 49 |
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