http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rRnkJAVTUxk Pretty neat I thought. Any negatives?

It looks pretty cool. It solves the problem with vinyl bucks as one can install stucco directly onto the EPS and it provides all the thermal breaks and insulation of EPS. A better way to do a window buck.

I'll be using the Fox Buck around the windows and doors when I start my build this summer, also the Fox Curb for installing high heeled trusses in the wall, instead of sitting them on top of the wall

I'd second Lbear's comments. If there is a downside, it would be any joints in the buck that run from inside to outside and if you stick the nozzle of your foam gun in them and give them a shot, you should cure that. Much better than wood bucks!

They should have made it an inny and it would work best

Posted By fallguy on 26 Mar 2013 10:42 PM
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rRnkJAVTUxk Pretty neat I thought. Any negatives?

What about cost?

Posted By smartwall on 27 Mar 2013 09:48 AM
They should have made it an inny and it would work best

That begs the question. Why?

Posted By smartwall on 27 Mar 2013 09:48 AM
They should have made it an inny and it would work best

What do you mean by an "inny"?

Posted By FBBP on 27 Mar 2013 08:55 AM
I'd second Lbear's comments. If there is a downside, it would be any joints in the buck that run from inside to outside and if you stick the nozzle of your foam gun in them and give them a shot, you should cure that. Much better than wood bucks!

So what this Fox Buck, does it completely (100%) eliminate wood bucks?

Does the window sit directly onto the Fox Buck and attachment is done how?

Posted By Lbear on 27 Mar 2013 07:20 PM

Posted By FBBP on 27 Mar 2013 08:55 AM
I'd second Lbear's comments. If there is a downside, it would be any joints in the buck that run from inside to outside and if you stick the nozzle of your foam gun in them and give them a shot, you should cure that. Much better than wood bucks!

So what this Fox Buck, does it completely (100%) eliminate wood bucks?

Does the window sit directly onto the Fox Buck and attachment is done how?

Yes and no. It eliminates the contact of concrete and wood, however you would still need to do some temporary bracing. For the sill buck, I would use a hole saw to cut a 4 to 6 inch opening and once the form is full, put it back in. For fastening, you could still just foam it in or what makes this better then an innie is that they have inserted web material in the outer edges to allow you to screw the nailing fin of the window to and to screw drywall to on the inside. Nice move! Now if they would just make so that their webs clicked together and didn't need the silly wire clips...

What I believe Smartwall is referring to is to have a buck that slips INSIDE the inner and outer panel. some installers just rip scrap panel to 6" (or whatever size your core is) and slip it between the two panels. Much better than wood but works best when using a superior product like Nudura or IntegraSpec which have dovetailed interiors to hold them in place when the concrete cures.

Posted By FBBP on 27 Mar 2013 08:02 PM


Yes and no. It eliminates the contact of concrete and wood, however you would still need to do some temporary bracing. For the sill buck, I would use a hole saw to cut a 4 to 6 inch opening and once the form is full, put it back in. For fastening, you could still just foam it in or what makes this better then an innie is that they have inserted web material in the outer edges to allow you to screw the nailing fin of the window to and to screw drywall to on the inside. Nice move! Now if they would just make so that their webs clicked together and didn't need the silly wire clips...

What I believe Smartwall is referring to is to have a buck that slips INSIDE the inner and outer panel. some installers just rip scrap panel to 6" (or whatever size your core is) and slip it between the two panels. Much better than wood but works best when using a superior product like Nudura or IntegraSpec which have dovetailed interiors to hold them in place when the concrete cures.

So with a Fox Buck the end product would be an EPS surround window frame area and one would simply install the window on top of the EPS Fox Buck and seal the window, is that correct? This product creates a solid concrete window surface without needing wood or the issues with vinyl bucks. It provides the insulation and thermal breaks of EPS. The engineers really hit it out of the park on this one. It was a long time coming.

European windows usually don't have nailing flanges. Can one install an "innie" window, or a window recessed on the inside of the window area? This would require screwing into the sides and inside of the window buck area.

I can't find anything on Fox Blocks site that shows this product. I wonder if one can use this Fox Window Buck with Nudura forms? Can these Fox Bucks be used for door bucks also?

The reason for the no clips is probably because Nudura has a patent on that idea.

Lbear - look here http://www.foxblocks.com/uploads/documents/Resources/Tech/Fox%20Blocks%20Fox%20Buck%20Tech%20Doc.pdf

When you use the buck for the sides you will have studs at 8" on center to screw into.

Lbear,

Considering where the insert is in Fox Block, it appears to me that windows will need a nailing flange.  But I thought I read somewhere that it could also be used for doors which do not normally have nailing flanges.

Posted By Alton on 27 Mar 2013 09:53 PM
Lbear,

Considering where the insert is in Fox Block, it appears to me that windows will need a nailing flange.  But I thought I read somewhere that it could also be used for doors which do not normally have nailing flanges.

Looking at the PDF photo of the Fox Buck, it appears there are furring strips on both sides of the panel, so one can use a nailing flange for the exterior window install and then the interior flange for a "innie" window install that uses attachment clips for European windows. The attachment strips are 1.5" wide and 2" thick, on both sides of the buck. This gives a screw attaching point on the outside and inside of the window area. Drywall can be attached and the window anchor clips and on the outside one can put EIFS/stucco directly onto the EPS.

With the vinyl bucks it caused a problem because you had vinyl and stucco won't adhere to vinyl. With wood bucks, you had the problem of wood, which can warp and thermally bridge, not to mention rot or termite issues.

I can't see why it wouldn't work for a door buck either.

Here is a YouTube video I found on it:

FoxBuck YouTube

Lbear,

I have a client that wants to use windows without a flange.  He also wants the windows to be in the middle of the wall.  

After looking at the link you gave, I now see that a window could be installed on either side or anywhere in the middle.  The very last part of the video mentions that screws could be installed anywhere across the buck where Fox is written.  That should allow windows without flanges to be installed with screws through the window frames.  What I cannot tell for sure yet is whether the screws through the window frames will hit the plastic tie or concrete.  Probably both if the screws are long enough.

An inny is the buck being placed inside of the form. It takes next to no bracing on an average size window. Alton your customer is spot on with the window placement. I believe pricing is in the $3 per lin ft range

Posted By Alton on 28 Mar 2013 10:03 AM
Lbear,

I have a client that wants to use windows without a flange.  He also wants the windows to be in the middle of the wall.  

After looking at the link you gave, I now see that a window could be installed on either side or anywhere in the middle.  The very last part of the video mentions that screws could be installed anywhere across the buck where Fox is written.  That should allow windows without flanges to be installed with screws through the window frames.  What I cannot tell for sure yet is whether the screws through the window frames will hit the plastic tie or concrete.  Probably both if the screws are long enough.

Windows mounted towards the middle or inner portion have been shown to provide higher frame R-Values and prevent the windows from "wind washing". They are better protected on the inside vs. a nailed flush to the exterior wall approach. Building Science has proven that mounting windows in the inner area of the frame is better overall, although it requires a little better approach to sealing. Flush mounted windows are the "standard" for US mounting but the reasoning is pretty obvious; they are very fast & easy to install flush mounted and even easier to to flash and seal.

It's a preference thing but I really like innie mounted windows. It gives the area more of a reveal. Of course it offers energy benefits also and protects the window from wind driven rain, hail and UV. Here in AZ they flush wall mount and in order to help spruce up the plain look of flush mounted windows, they install "pop-outs" or pieces of EPS around the window to create a deeper reveal on a flush mounted window. The problem is that these pop-outs end up causing problems with flashing and they don't pitch them properly so water backs up into the window area.

Getting back to the Fox Buck. One good thing is that you can run screws into the attachment webs or use TapCon screws to anchor into the concrete. Either way, you get a very solid attachment point. No more wood bucks and dealing with wood issues. This buck was a long time coming and I am glad they finally resolved this issue. ICF window and door bucks always seemed like an afterthought and a compromise as one had to resort going back to wood in a concrete wall assembly.

I think you could use it with any brand of block as long as its the same width...

When I build a ICF house it will have this buck for sure.

What if the buck location falls 6” or 8” from the last web?
Most bucks have a flange to support the over hanging foam during concrete placement.
How is that situation handled?

I am thinking the fox block must be framed/supported during the pour... For a install at max distance from a web, you would put a flange on the inner support frame that encloses/supports the extended foam during the pour... ALl that framework being removed after the concrete cures leaving a efficient well insulated rough window opening...