This might be old news for some of you, but I figured out an easy way to get my electrical wiring down to the basement. My basement walls are 8" Fox, and the main floor is 6". There is a 2X12 ledger all the way around. I didn't really have a good plan for getting wiring from the basement to the main floor, but Plan B was to bring it all up through interior walls. I decided to try an idea, testing it on a range outlet. I used the 'hot ball' trick that SIP guys use. I cut the 4" square opening for the box, then transferred the location down to the basement, where I cut another hole. I lined the lower hole with aluminum foil (so I could get my ball back), and heated up a 1/2" steel ball with a torch, and then dropped it where I wanted it. 15 seconds later, I had a clean 3/4" hole! The outer edge of the hole is almost 2" from the foam surface, so it should meet code. Once the wire is pulled, I'll shoot foam in the hole to seal it up and secure the wire. I like it so much, I may do all of my outlets that way, rather than cutting horizontal channels. I'm not sure what the inspector will make of it, though, or whether they will accept gluing it in with foam 'secured' per code. They do for wires in slots. The box is exactly 2-5/8" deep; I wish it could get it without the nail brackets. Now, if I only could figure out a way to make a hot ball travel sideways.....

Posted By jdebree on 07 Jun 2013 10:23 AM
The box is exactly 2-5/8" deep; I wish it could get it without the nail brackets

2 gang boxes are available with a nailing flange on one side. I used them by screwing the flange into a web. 3 gang have a similar configuration.

Single, double and triple gang boxes. http://www.ipexamerica.com/content/products/product.aspx?productid=109&submarketid=17&marketsegmentid=5

Now, if I only could figure out a way to make a hot ball travel sideways.....

A hot piece of rebar pressed against the foam? Then fill it with spray foam?

Posted By jdebree on 07 Jun 2013 10:23 AM
This might be old news for some of you, but I figured out an easy way to get my electrical wiring down to the basement. My basement walls are 8" Fox, and the main floor is 6". There is a 2X12 ledger all the way around. I didn't really have a good plan for getting wiring from the basement to the main floor, but Plan B was to bring it all up through interior walls. I decided to try an idea, testing it on a range outlet. I used the 'hot ball' trick that SIP guys use.

Sure wish I would have known about this trick when I built my house. Would have worked superbly for running PEX water lines from the kitchen and bathrooms down into the crawl space!

It would work for PEX; maybe with a slightly bigger ball. I know I could have slotted the foam prior to installing the ledgers, but I'm designing the house on the fly, so the electrical plan wasn't done back when I built the floor system.

We just had a thread about electrical boxes. I know a range outlet will fit in a 2-gang box, but I want to also use 4" boxes (with a mud ring) for my regular outlets as well. On interior walls, I'll use deep single boxes, but the ICF walls are kinda shallow, especially being that I'll be running 12 AWG everywhere. The box in the pic is perfect; exactly 2-5/8" deep for a 32 cu in box. Now if only they made it without the 'wings'. Steel boxes only come 2-1/8" deep, so I'd have to shim them out if I wanted to Tap-Con them to the concrete (which I do). The various 1,2,3,4 gang boxes don't come in a good depth, either, being either to shallow or too deep to be ideal. The Ipex stuff is nice, but expensive.

Regardless of the box used, it solved my problem of threading wires up from the basement. A safety note- I keep a fire extinguisher nearby when doing this. I don't know if you could actually start a fire if the ball were too hot, but you never know. Needless to say, anything non-foam, such as concrete leaked into the horizontal seam, is going to stop the ball. I might try dropping one down from the top of the wall for my garage wiring, just to see if it will work. The way my garage is configured, I could just drill through from the basement, but I'd like to try it anyway, just for fun.

Don't think I would want pex in my foam walls. To much heat transfer both ways.
jdebree - We tend to use a router and template which leaves just enough foam behind the box to tighten the ground and lug screws. If you tapcon them solid you will have to cut these screws down.
I know you are in a bit warmer clime then me but the 4x4's double the heatloss.

If you are concerned about just foaming boxes in, do a sample and leave it for the weekend then try pulling it out. I know in some jurisdictions inspectors can be somewhat anal about this so let him try too!

Posted By FBBP on 07 Jun 2013 03:34 PM
Don't think I would want pex in my foam walls. To much heat transfer both ways.

For domestic water lines? How so?

I know the foam will hold the boxes in, and I think it passes inspection here. I'm just a belt-and-suspenders kinda guy. I've seen old foam (in boats) that for whatever reason had gotten very dry and crumbly- virtually no structural integrity. I have no way of knowing if the stuff I shoot in there will do that years down the road. I will foam it in addition to Tap-Cons. It's my own house; I don't care about the extra labor. If I go with 4" boxes with a mud ring, the drywall would also hold the box in place, so these boxes aren't going anywhere, ever.

I can't imagine that the difference between 2X4 boxes and 4X4 boxes would be measurable in terms of heat loss. I have 18 outlet boxes on outside walls, which equals 2 square feet total, versus 1 square foot for 2X4 boxes. So I'd have one square foot more with half the insulation of the whole wall. There are no ground screws in plastic boxes. The deeper box also keeps the wire buried at the maximum distance from the wall surface.

Posted By jdebree on 08 Jun 2013 06:54 AM
I know the foam will hold the boxes in, and I think it passes inspection here. I'm just a belt-and-suspenders kinda guy. I've seen old foam (in boats) that for whatever reason had gotten very dry and crumbly- virtually no structural integrity. I have no way of knowing if the stuff I shoot in there will do that years down the road. I will foam it in addition to Tap-Cons. It's my own house; I don't care about the extra labor. If I go with 4" boxes with a mud ring, the drywall would also hold the box in place, so these boxes aren't going anywhere, ever.

I can't imagine that the difference between 2X4 boxes and 4X4 boxes would be measurable in terms of heat loss. I have 18 outlet boxes on outside walls, which equals 2 square feet total, versus 1 square foot for 2X4 boxes. So I'd have one square foot more with half the insulation of the whole wall. There are no ground screws in plastic boxes. The deeper box also keeps the wire buried at the maximum distance from the wall surface.

Make sure your boxes have sufficient cu. inches for the amount and guage of wires you are installing
Junction boxes and device boxes are selected by the number of switches or outlets (devices) in that box and the number of conductors entering that box. The boxes must have a cubic inch capacity large enough to handle the box fill in accordance with N.E.C. Article 370-16.
Plastic boxes generally have the cubic inch capacity marked inside the box, along with the number of commonly used conductors that the box may contain. But, remember that each device (switch or plug) must be counted as 2 conductors and all equipment grounding conductors (bare) must be counted as 1.
Example: Installing an outlet in a device box with the dimensions of 3 x 2 x 2 ¾ = 14.0 cu. in. 2- #12-2 (with ground) cables enter the box. Each cable has 2 conductors (2 x 2 = 4) 4 wires All grounds count as 1 1 wire The outlet counts as 2 2 wires 7 wires TOTAL 7 - #12 wires require 15.75 cu. in. (7 x 2.25 = 15.75), therefore, this 14.0 cu. in. box may not be used.
All conductors in a box must have at least 6” of free conductors for splicing or connection of devices. (N.E.C. 300-14).

That's why I prefer the deep 4X4 boxes; at 32 cu/in, they far exceed what I need, and make it easier to install the outlet. I did find an 18 cu/in plastic box that will work. It has a mounting flange that could be screwed to the web. Inside, it has listed 8/12 gauge wires, so it will cover an ordinary outlet with one cable in and one out, plus the device. Even code-legal boxes seem tight to me when trying to neatly fold the excess wire in place and install the outlet. I'm no electrician, so maybe there's a trick-of-the-trade for getting everything in there neatly. 12 gauge wire is stiffer, too, which adds to the problem.