Does anyone know where I can find a table for the number and size of anchor bolts needed to hang my 1st floor and deck ledgers? The only ones I can find are for decks and I obviously don't want to under-build.

Not quite sure what you meant when you said the only information you found was for decks. That's what you are building isn't it?
Table 307.5 (IIRC) of the IRC specifies number of bolts based on span, loads and lumber size. Instead of wet setting anchor bolts I'd suggest using Simpson Titan HD bolts or similar, drilling through the ledger into the concrete after the pour. Trying to get the ledger marked with that many horizontal ABs will not be easy.

I will have a ledger for both decks and for the first floor. I would really prefer to wet set vrs drill holes after the fact.

IRC as mentioned, PCA-100 has prescriptive tables that also cover seismic zones if that applies to you. If this is ICF, the ICF manufacturer should have tables for this also. As for wet setting the anchors, you bolt them to the ledgers and attach the ledgers to the ICF block crossties. You will of course need to relieve a certain ammount of the foam around each anchor to allow the CC to flow out to the face of the ledger to support it. Again the ICf manufacturer should have a detail for this...

The ICF Prescriptive Method has ledger bolt spacing tables:

https://www.huduser.gov/publications/pdf/icf_2ed.pdf

That's prehistoric. Nobody uses ledgers anymore with anchor bolts. Watkins hangers are what I use. Simple, cost effective since you skip the ledger. It doesn't make sense to go backwards. Plus the hangers are cast in place, far better than drilling holes post pour,

Posted By arkie6 on 05 Oct 2016 01:48 AM
The ICF Prescriptive Method has ledger bolt spacing tables:

https://www.huduser.gov/publications/pdf/icf_2ed.pdf

Exactly what I was looking for, thanks!

Posted By smartwall on 05 Oct 2016 08:50 AM
That's prehistoric. Nobody uses ledgers anymore with anchor bolts. Watkins hangers are what I use. Simple, cost effective since you skip the ledger. It doesn't make sense to go backwards. Plus the hangers are cast in place, far better than drilling holes post pour,

Thanks for the tip. Those look very enticing. What do you do about not having that ledger to hold up the edge f your decking? Does the floor flex? I would think it should be blocked??

If you are going to wet set anchors for ledgers, you might as well place the whole floor prior to pouring the walls. It will hold everything nice and square and you have the whole floor to pour from, not just a walkway.

If you use anchor bolts, weld flags on them just deeper then the foam thickness, to prevent moment bending. InterGraSpec use to have details on their web site.

Yes, after everything is installed including the wiring and dry wall we took scarp 2x4's and filled in the space between the floor system by attaching them to the webs on the forms and toe nailing them to the joist. Watkins has a ledge system, but I like the standard bracket.

Posted By FBBP on 05 Oct 2016 10:36 AM
If you are going to wet set anchors for ledgers, you might as well place the whole floor prior to pouring the walls. It will hold everything nice and square and you have the whole floor to pour from, not just a walkway.

If you use anchor bolts, weld flags on them just deeper then the foam thickness, to prevent moment bending. InterGraSpec use to have details on their web site.

Don't want to hijack the thread, but I've had an ICF vendor recommend doing this as well as a contractor, but what are the exact mechanics of doing this. Is there additional bracing needed? It just seems to me that the wall would want to bulge out in the middle vertically around the perimeter. I understand that it also is a cost saving since you don't have to rent/build the bracing. This seems like a veterans practice.

fvicf - actually you still use the bracing.
We have a set of 9 foot high strong backs. These are set on the footing as per normal ICF construction. We stack our wall and then set the ledger on top of the strong backs. We do insert a piece of 3/4" material on top of the strong back below the ledger to make sure the strong backs don't get trapped. This gives you a 9'3/4" high basement. The ledger is drilled for the anchor bolts and installed against the wall with screws into the webs. Put you hangers on the ledger prior to installing the ledger. Once the ledger is in place, the joists can be set. Make sure the walls are perfectly straight prior to putting on the sheathing and you will have a perfect wall at the end of the pour.

Go to page 14-0 at
http://www.integraspec.com/pdf/Installation_Manual_V8.0.pdf

I still prefer Simpson icfvl ledger plates. Fast to install and give framer a bit of adjustment if needed. Can also cover with drywall if not needed on multiple plate heights and framing changes.

I'm missing something. How does putting the deck in place before the pour save time? It would seem to take more time than the usual method. fvicf you do need bracing.

My basement calls for two steel beams placed into beam pockets within the ICF wall so I would think it doesn't make sense to do it that way for me.

Posted By FBBP on 06 Oct 2016 01:34 PM
fvicf - actually you still use the bracing.
We have a set of 9 foot high strong backs. These are set on the footing as per normal ICF construction. We stack our wall and then set the ledger on top of the strong backs. We do insert a piece of 3/4" material on top of the strong back below the ledger to make sure the strong backs don't get trapped. This gives you a 9'3/4" high basement. The ledger is drilled for the anchor bolts and installed against the wall with screws into the webs. Put you hangers on the ledger prior to installing the ledger. Once the ledger is in place, the joists can be set. Make sure the walls are perfectly straight prior to putting on the sheathing and you will have a perfect wall at the end of the pour.

Go to page 14-0 at
http://www.integraspec.com/pdf/Installation_Manual_V8.0.pdf

Ok, thank you for the clarification. They both seemed to imply the bracing was not needed. Good to know. As I'm thinking of doing this myself. I'd be a little nervous about the added time the ICF would be stack waiting for me to get the deck in place.

how big of an area of foam should I remove around the anchor bolts? 6" wide enough?

smartwall - The floor has to be placed anyway. We normally do the floor in place when we have multi storey walls to do ie the basement and the main floor and sometimes a second storey. The main advantage is that the house is perfectly plumb and square prior to the placing of concrete so you don't have to spend time afterwards in truing up the walls. In a big pour, lower wall concrete is already kicking over so it is hardier to true up the walls at the end. The other big difference is that you have the whole floor to pour off not just the catwalk. Much nicer especially in the winter when catwalks are icy.

loghomebuilder - almost all floors will have a beam or two in the floor system. We just set up the steel columns on their pads and set the beam with the ends cut into the ICF wall. We put an extra temporary column under the beam at the wall. If it is a steel beam, there should be Nelson Studs on the end to embed into the concrete. Alternatively a pair of holes can be cut into the web and rebar inserted. If wood, some jurisdictions require a moisture barrier around the beam.
If you go to the link I posted to Integraspec you will see how to use flags on the bolts. With that method, you don't have to remove any foam other then the bolt hole. If you use standard bolts, 6" is more then enough, four inches better if the bolt is centered. This method does cause a bit of thermal bridging and in theory there is wood in contact with concrete is you don't place a moisture barrier.

fvicf - what is your concerned about open time on the ICF?

I can see with Hambro or one of the foam floor system but not a standard wood floor. Especially drilling lags in the concrete. If you do that with a standard 3500 lb mix you'll hit aggregate and the holes will be bigger than needed. I'll stick with Watkins brackets cast in during the pour which I always do footing, walls and floor in one step. That saves time. Try using Zonts and Zuckles, straight walls with next to no adjustment needed depending on what form you use. Which brings up a question. How do you treat compression with your set up?

smartwall - not sure what drilling you are talking about. We are talking wet set.
I have used z&z and still use them for stem walls of short height. You must have much straighter 2x4s then we get if you are doing the whole house with z&z.
We work year round so would not pour our floors til closed in and heated. Also typically have a lot of underslab work to do.

Around here ICF connectors typically cost around $25 for the two pc. Not sure of the cost of Watkins. Flagged bolts cost about $3.50. Connectors cannot be used for outside locations.
I can predrill the LVL, set it against the wall to mark locations, roll it down to my supports and insert the flag bolts, faster then I can do two cuts for the hangers and install the LVL.
Using individual hangers, it is essential that you have the whole floor layout to make sure any misplaced joists (for plumbing etc.) are properly located. No solution if anything changes.

Using Nudura or IntegraSpec there is no compression as the fastener strips are continuous in the block. Also the floor system is supported by stongbacks not the wall. The LVL is screwed into the wall so it holds the top of the wall both vertically and horizontally.