Hi, I'm about to make service penetration in my ICF wall before pouring concrete. I think I need following
1. Electrical Service about 3" PVC penetration
2. AC about 2" PVC penetration
3. Several outside electric outlet 1" or larger PVC penetration
4. Outside water spigots 2"
5. propane tank, not sure thinking 2" PVC penetration
6. Well water pipe penetration, likely 2" PVC.
Most of the penetration will be right above ground level however well pipe and propane pipe I think it should be deep in the ground past 42" frost line. Thinking about placing this slightly deeper, my basement is nearly 8ft below ground.
QUESTION:
How do I seal it around so I don't have water sipping thru the opening? I'm planing to use PVC for all of these.
Also how big opening I need for propane furnace exhaust and on demand water heater exhaust, both run on propane? Thank you. Jerry

Others who do ICF for a living will probably offer a better solution, but here's what I would suggest. First, install a PVC sleeve in the forms before placing the concrete. Seal those to the form with the same foam as for all other sealing. Make the sleeves at least nominal one inch larger than the pipe or conduit that will be passing through. Fill the space between the conduit or pipe and the sleeve with foam. If you're using 6" blocks that'll give you about 11" of foam from outside to inside. Water will have a hard time passing through. If you're really anal about the ones under ground fill the gap between the sleeve and whatever is passing through with caulk of some sort for a half inch or so on the outside end.

As for electrical think about running the wires down in the ICF foam from the eve to the outlet and avoid the hassle of going through the concrete. That's what I did.

Your furnace and water heater installation instructions will tell you how large the exhaust PVC needs to be. Make the sleeve 1" or more larger. I think I used 6" PVC pipe for the sleeves for my 4" drain lines that passed through to the outside.

If you have anything like PEX water lines or AC refrigerant lines running from the garage down into the basement do like I did. I got long sweep 3" and 4" conduit elbows and placed them to pass through the wall and up through the garage floor. I ran my AC lines in the ICF foam on the inside of the garage wall. To avoid sharp elbow bends in the lines I installed the sleeve at about 45° to 60° through the forms rather than horizontally through the form.

Again, all penetrations should happen BEFORE you pour the concrete.

Use the pipe or sleeve itself as the template for cutting through the form.
Seal it in place with the foam sealant on both the interior and exterior interfaces with the forms. Stuff the cutouts into the pipe/sleeve to help give it a bit of dimensional stability and temporarily tape or otherwise seal the ends.
Then pour the concrete. It'll conform around the pipe/sleeve.

If you're using peel-and-stick to waterproof the exterior, put an extra patch-piece (turned 45 degrees) around each of the pipe interfaces before doing full-wall strips.

Some good points made here. One small thing -- it is better to tilt your penetrations down (1 degree or so) if possible so that if a roof water leak allows water to the top of wall it will exit to the outside. Regards, Cameron

Casiting PVC sleeves in place when you do the pour is a good start, and the outward slope is also a good idea. An always flexible polyurethane caulk between the sleeve and the pipe would complete the seal.

For drilled concrete penetrations use a polyurethane caulk formulated for concrete. The "self-leveling" types used for sealing cracked slabs might sag before it cures but the types used for concrete walll cracks or radon-abatement will work.

Get some Protecto Wrap.

If you want them in the optimal place do them after. Otherwise you will wish they were where they aren't and may be forced to move them. Rent a Core Drill at Home Depot for a day and do it when the time comes. Just my 2 cents.

Posted By newbostonconst on 18 Dec 2017 03:49 PM
If you want them in the optimal place do them after. Otherwise you will wish they were where they aren't and may be forced to move them. Rent a Core Drill at Home Depot for a day and do it when the time comes. Just my 2 cents.

Honestly, wouldn't a bit of pre-planning  and talking with the local utilities allow for optimal placement BEFORE the pour?

Easier than spackling over a irregular hole in the wall.

Posted By newbostonconst on 18 Dec 2017 03:49 PM
If you want them in the optimal place do them after. Otherwise you will wish they were where they aren't and may be forced to move them. Rent a Core Drill at Home Depot for a day and do it when the time comes. Just my 2 cents.

In a sense you're right, but good planning is still the best route. With good planning one should be able to have most penetrations properly located, or close enough to still be usable. Drilling two or three because of after-the-pour changes out of ten is a lot less work than drilling all ten! Out of all my penetrations, about 10 I think, one was unneeded, one I forgot to do or determined it was needed later, I don't recall, and maybe one or two were in the wrong place.

All of those penetrations are above grade except for well (and septic, you didnt mention that one). Well will come under the footing or through an extra bleeder but under footing is better so you can make a better sweep upwards through the eventual basement floor.

Propane is done by your provider at around 12" (recomended 12-18 but those guys dont go far beyond 12 unless you have a mini handy and dig for them) and up through the floor system, make sure you dont drive over it with a concrete truck or wheeled skidsteer/telehandler, ect.

1" should be plenty for receps, you could fit 4 romex through a 1" hole (8 conductors per hole I believe?) You could get by with 3/4" with a line in line out.

Septic is usually a core unless tanks are set but plumber sets that one.

2" is pretty light for AC sleeve, 2 1/2 would be better.

Power is through the floor, you could probably use a piece of 2 1/2" and they could cut and glue on a bell end sweep on the panel side and cut and put the bushing on the pedastal side instead of a sleeve.

Don't know how you get 10 large penetrations and have them perfect. Guess some of you just accept 2nd best, I don't. Later is better and not much harder.

I have 2 for elect, 1 water, 1 gas, 1 water heater exhaust. That is all the large holes I have (drain went under the footer)

All others are 1 inch or smaller. 5 holes in the exact location you want them by doing them later in my mind is the better route.

I also did all my spigots with a one inch. Lighting with 1/2 inch. All easy later with a hammer drill.

I must be getting old when it's easier to drill 10 penetrations than do a good layout before the pour. If you can't lay out the penetrations, what's the crown molding going to look like? The whole thing about under the footings thing escapes me too. I'll have to try that, ah, no I won't.

Posted By newbostonconst on 19 Dec 2017 12:03 PM
Don't know how you get 10 large penetrations and have them perfect. Guess some of you just accept 2nd best, I don't. Later is better and not much harder.

A good CAD program helps! I built my house at least three times in my head while I was drawing the plans. Oh, I also had 23 sheets in my plans compared to the usual 6 to 10 most house builders use. I had ONE significant change between the drawings and as-built. I had to move a window in the bathroom so a potential future grab bar wouldn't have to be anchored to the glass!!

Smartwall, if you dont run lines under a footing are you saying you only use ejector pits or you dont do basement plumbing?

My foundation guys come back and do all my crown molding too, small world.

Actually did my first house that way. The plumber hated it and pointed out that if the line had to be serviced it would be a whole lot easier to have the waste pipe go out thru the wall. I paid $3000 in extra excavation cost to slope the under footing soil pipe to the sewer. The next one I used a $850 macerator pump. I ain't the sharpest guy in the world, but that saved me $2150.

All things typical, as in you could do either thru wall or under, you wouldnt save $2150. Extra trenching costs to go an extra 4' when your end point is the same might be 10 extra minutes of digging with your typical full size excavator with a 36" bucket which should be onsite from the basement dig. At $150 an hour, what, $25? Then another $25 to put that extra dirt back in after the laterals are in.

I'm guessing (hoping for your sake) your situation was not typical and there is more to the story behind your $3000 bill like extra POWTS cost or something and not they used a 17 hp tiny bucket and milked you.

My point is you should avoid thru wall underground basement penetrations, I would rather have it come through the floor where there is a layer of drainage rock tied into the drain tile and sump pit or daylight protecting water from getting in.

Trenched from 9' to 13' over the course of 130' for a tie in to a city sewer system. Not you typical set up if you were doing a septic system, but I would still use a macerator if I did another one. The macerator makes it a whole lot easier on the septic system if you know what I mean. Thru wall penetrations are no problem if you do the waterproofing right, hence the reason I switched to Protecto Wrap. I tried it last week on the bumper of my deliver truck. 8 degrees on a rusty bumper and it stuck.

9' down to 13' over 130' instead of 5' down to 13' over 130' is about 35 extra yards at 42" wide, maybe 45 if its side sloped. 20 second cycle per bucket removed, 1 yard per bucket. 7-10 extra minutes @ $150 an hour.

Sounds good,but you left something out. What can it be?

Thats what Im trying to figure out, bedding is the same, backfill is negligible, digging under the footing is a plumbing cost and no different than digging a pit, you have enough pitch, so Im out of guesses what am I missing?