I have been looking at the different products out there and The Perfect Block seems interesting to me. It's an ICCF screen grid block. It is made from EPScrete instead of EPS with plastic reinforcement. I guess the negative is that the blocks are heavier than typical but they evidently don't blow out and don't move at all during a pour with almost no bracing. My ideal would be to do a wall and footing mono-pour in one day, finishing with the slab pour. If it's impractical to do a one day pour, I'll have to see if footing and first story or footing with 1-2 courses of block and slab make sense for day 1. Right now I'm working on a plan. I have it almost ready to figure out what the next step is. I need permits where I am building and my design is going to follow most of the prescriptive method I think. A couple floor trusses might need a stamp and some ICF details might need stamps too (wall height and a lintel maybe). Other things: since it is EPScrete it can be finished with stucco and plaster directly, no expensive membranes or rain screen needed, it should be impervious to insect infestation unless insects learn to eat stucco or concrete, it's fire rated at 2,000 degrees for 4 hours and the whole wall is a vapor retarder so it should dry to the interior and exterior, no moisture issues and I'm building in a desert also. I am planning on a standing seam steel roof. I think it will work out to about R25 in the walls and probably about R50 in the ceiling. my windows and doors will be minimized to reduce losses there but not so much that it will hurt the building appraisal. I think it will be pretty energy efficient due to a very tight envelope and small size (about 1,800 ft^2 total, mostly garage/shop which won't be heated and cooled as much as the living area) but I'm not sure if it's "green". The block uses recycled EPS so that is good but I think I'm going to need about 30 yards of concrete and that isn't the greenest material. The stucco and plaster will hopefully be lime products that sequester some carbon. I want to get to net zero with about a 5-6 KW solar panel array (grid tie). I also want to minimize my construction waste. Oh, I am designing myself and will be doing the large majority of work except for site work and I will have a lot of help on concrete day. Everything else I want to do myself unless I come across a job that needs a helper. Roofing might need a helper just to get the strips of standing seam on the roof. I have the skill set to do pretty much everything. Plaster, Tile and concrete are my deficiencies but I plan to learn as much as possible before I begin in about a year. If my plaster and tile are shitty, I can re-do until I get it right but I'm not too worried. The concrete has to be right so I will get help when needed. Permits and desert weather make starting immediately impossible and starting before next fall impractical, those are the delays. Since I intend to do all the trades myself, scheduling will be easy and delays will only happen if I drop the ball somewhere. Other details, I am designing with the mechanicals in mind, I should be able to fit most of them in a single bay between two floor joists with short conduit runs branching off from there for electrical. I want to incorporate many smart home and IOT features but with open source software so I don't have corporate overlords listening in to my private life but since it's mostly garage/shop space I chose the name Smart Shop.

By the way, is there any way to do paragraphs? Reading my post, it is missing my carriage returns.

I've done a few mono pours in my career and I think using the Perfect Block would be a problem. It definitely wouldn't work with the system I use and probably not with Fab-Form's system.

I was thinking about modifying the fab form system to use about twice as many feet and make a large galvanized steel sheet "staple" to install from the bottom and bolt the feet to. The idea being to reinforce the bottom of the block and tie in to the concrete.

If you don't mind, could you describe your system?

I am always looking for better ideas.

Thanks.

My system uses a bar that I designed that attaches the two footing forms together. The problem comes with the bracing. I modified my Plumwall bracing to work with the system. One thing you can do with the Fab Form system would be to use a galvanized L metal to tie the blocks together at the base. Not sure how well the blocks hold a screw. Also with the FF system, they glue the first couple of courses together. Your idea may work. I like challenges, but I wouldn't try it. I would suggest using a regular block with the FF system. They have a good track record, it's a proven product.

The Perfect Block system uses foam as glue on all courses. The EPScrete should be more structural than standard EPS but it doesn't have plastic "studs", I think they say it can take a screw anywhere.

My idea is to make my oversized staple attach kind of the same as some of the joist hanger systems, be a shelf to hold the block up and create a steel "stud" to attach the Fab Form feet to. The plastic for the footing would attach the same as the typical ICF but I was thinking I could also use long deck screws to go through the entire block and connect both sides to avoid any fastener pull out issue. To me that seems like I have accounted for every issue except possibly the weight of the block.

The more I think about it, the less confident I am that I could pull off a one day mono-pour. I might have to do the footing and first few courses plus the slab and then stack up the rest of the block after that.

I have been looking at my interior walls and I think I can remove a few, and with them, the lintels I'm worried about. Less concrete and I think it might be easier to get an engineer to sign off on a wooden floor truss that they are pretty familiar with.

I'm going to keep refining the plan and eventually see what my concrete crew and block manufacturer are comfortable with.

I did an integrated footing once.....won't do that again.

Regular footings are easy and quick they can be poured right out of the truck without a pumper. With some integrated footings you have to get the ground flat and level for the form to sit on. Also keep it flat and level till you have the wall built. It is harder to work when you are try to work again time and mother nature keeping the area from caving in.

The one I did water was hard to keep out with a constant pump to keep out the water. It rained hard one day and all the frame floated up and everything had to be started over. You also have the wind trying to blow over the forms.

Your block seems heavy so that will also change things. Do you have a link to the concept you are trying to use?

It's my concept, a modified Fab Form type mono-pour ICF + footing.

Luckily for me, the place where I am building is desert. I don't need particularly deep footings and my build site is fairly flat. After the site work, handling mother nature shouldn't be a big issue. I have seen what happens in areas with rain and snow, that just won't happen. My worst case scenario would be a monsoon but I'm going to build after monsoon season so the chances are very slim.

I think the heavy block will have the benefit of being harder to blow away.

I'm lucky that the place I am building is about the safest there is for natural disasters. On the other hand, the summer sun is like a natural disaster, I have to make a building that will survive the sun long term or else I will cook. My plan is galvalume standing seam roof, air space and a radiant barrier under that, a lot of insulation under the radiant barrier and some solar panels on top for shading and also to power my AC and get to net zero or better.

Don't get me wrong, I have seen the type of stuff that can wreck a mono-pour and I know there is risk but I think the bigger risk is overloading the Fab Form feet or blowing out the footing plastic.

The main point of a mono-pour is to reduce the cost of the concrete in dollars and time. Renting a pump is a cost I don't want to pay for twice or three times and also I have to pay extra because my build site is about 45 minutes from the closest batch plant. Beside that, if my pour is done in one day, that helps my schedule a lot. I can start installing floor joists and roof joists probably 2-3 days after the pour. If I have to wait 2-3 days to start stacking my wall on the footing and go up the 23' walls in three pours with 2-3 days waiting and stacking time between them, my walls are going to take more like a few weeks before I can start with joists and drying it in.

I am going to try to get together the best pour day concrete crew I can find because I want to mitigate as much risk as I can but I really want to avoid cold joints and rebar lap joints.

It will be a great morale booster if I can go from stacking blocks to hanging joists too. The best thing is to dry it in quick and then take my time with finishes, otherwise I wouldn't even consider the risk of a mono-pour.

I still worry for you. It will be hard to have the walls straight and all the weight of that wall on Fab Form foot...Bracing will be harder. Especially for a first timer....There is a reason the guys that do this daily don't use Fab Form.

There is not second time with ICF, it is very hard to fix if you screwup. Wrong heights are impossible to fix with out shimming the top plate. Windows at different heights would be really hard to fix.

That old saying, hast makes waste. Footer can be poured in one day without a pumper most of the time. Praying for you....

I still worry for you. It will be hard to have the walls straight and all the weight of that wall on Fab Form foot...Bracing will be harder. Especially for a first timer....There is a reason the guys that do this daily don't use Fab Form.

There is not second time with ICF, it is very hard to fix if you screwup. Wrong heights are impossible to fix with out shimming the top plate. Windows at different heights would be really hard to fix.

That old saying, hast makes waste. Footer can be poured in one day without a pumper most of the time. Praying for you....

I fully concur with Smartwall and Newbostonconst...don't waste your money/time with ICCF...just use a good ICF block...

I will certainly not be hasty. If all goes well, I will pour in 10-12 months and I'm hoping to volunteer with Habitat for Humanity or otherwise try to get some experience with concrete pours.

I don't like to brag but I have done things that are more difficult than an ICF build. I'm good at solving problems and also seeing them from a long way off. If I see an issue that I can't find a way to work around/solve, I will adjust my plans to avoid it. I just don't want to pay $6,000 for my concrete when it could be $3,500. I'm on a budget, I can't have too many $2,500 upcharges before that is blown and I have to sacrifice features and finishes.

Luckily for me the ICCF block manufacturer is close to where I will be building. They have a concrete crew that they work with frequently. I'll make sure I run my plans by them as a sanity check and probably hire one or two to supervise or run my pour(s).

Just don't be surprised if I pull off something that's never been done before.

I think the point folks have tried to make here is that you could save much effort, money and risk by just doing mono pour ICF...

Ok, how much does about 2,000 ft^2 of typical ICF wall cost, then add a fire resistant shop interior and an exterior finish?

A big benefit of the ICCF is that it has a fire rating with a pretty simple and cheap plaster/stucco finish. You also don't have to rent a bunch of bracing or buy as much bracing wood that winds up in the debris bin.

I don't mind a big effort as long as I can maximize the amount I do and minimize the amount of labor I have to pay for. I think I can go from site work to a dried in structure in less than 4 weeks if the pour goes smoothly and I don't run in to any issues hanging the floor joists and roof joists. I can do the plaster and stucco between other jobs.

I have watched plenty of DIY ICF videos on YouTube and the process just seems clunky, overly complex and time consuming. I intend to combine every best practice I can find and make up a few tricks of my own to streamline my pour day(s) and use I(C)CF as the labor saver it is intended to be.

ICF cost and shipping cost to the building location can vary all over the map so you will need to do your homework to find the lowest cost ICF manufacturer to use for your project. ICF construction can be a trivial DIY project once you take the time to get the training to accomplish it. Most ICF manufacturers offer free or low cost options to get their training. You can stucco or put concrete fiber siding (e.g., Hardie) on ICF exterior to increase fire resistance if desired/needed. You can use conventional fire resistant dry wall on ICF interior to increase fire resistance if desired/needed. Yes, you will need braces for ICF...buy/resell them or rent them. Or use Zonts/Zuckles if you also need 2x4 for interior walls. Most of ICF labor is putting up and taking down the braces. We prefer steel braces, but we did ICF construction as a business for many years. The pour is only a couple hour affair...if you know what you are doing. We have seen DIY couples put up all the ICF walls on a weekend and then pour them on Monday.

Luckily The Perfect Block is manufactured just half a state away from my build site. It is heavier and doesn't fold but I think my delivery cost will be manageable.

I have been thinking about my scaffolding and lifting blocks up to the height of the wall. Eventually I will need some pallet racking in the shop and I saw a video where the scaffold looked like pallet rack with wheels on it. I think I will give that a shot and make some outriggers to mount trailer jacks on so I can have a wide base for stability and lower the wheels when it needs to move. I will probably be looking for one of the smaller walk behind fork lift/pallet lifts to raise block up to the scaffold level and maybe unload the delivery truck. I wouldn't mind one after the build is done so a nice compact unit that doesn't take up too much floor space will be ideal. I think a pallet of block is about 1,200lbs so if I find a lift of 1,500+ capacity it should do the job, some of those seem to be 12vdc so batteries, chargers and maintenance should be simple. I'll try to use the top half of all the pallets for the low sections of wall and then only lift half pallets up to the scaffold.

Any way, I am starting to plan the logistics and timeline for the pour. I don't have all of the details yet but there are a lot of things that I will need regardless of how the actual pour(s) is planned. I can put those things in the budget and timeline. I want to keep it clean and work as close to just in time as I can so I don't have a bunch of construction materials, tools or equipment sitting on the site insecurely. One of the first things is going to be a steel RV cover (carport/garage) of about 20x40' with a 16x12' garage door, that will allow me to store building materials and tools on site and even sleep in there so I don't have to do a 90 minute round trip between days of working on site.

I should be able to store all of my steel roof material, blocks, rebar, trusses, joists, windows and doors so that once the walls top out I can immediately do the roof or (second) floor joists.

I am really glad I saw the wheeled pallet rack scaffold because it basically eliminates my scaffold costs and will let me set up my garage/shop and RV cover (carport/garage) for very efficient storage. By the way, used pallet rack is pretty cheap, probably $1,000 worth will be all I would ever want and plenty to do lots of scaffolding. The pallet lift is a bonus, I would love a regular forklift but they take up space and seem extravagant for my shop. The lift should do 95% of everything I would use a small forklift for and take up less than half the space. Neither would do anything I would need a big forklift for but those tasks are usually intentional, I don't intend to do anything that needs a big forklift but I'll never say never. Any way the racks and lift will be construction expenses but the utility will continue for years afterward. Having a shop and pallet rack storage is cool but an almost forklift with a shop and pallet rack is a whole different level of cool.

I have contacted The Perfect Block about buying a couple sample blocks for testing.

Typically the blocks are stacked and glued with a spray foam. I don't think I like that, foam nozzles clog and the cans are expensive. Instead I'm looking for an EPS safe adhesive that also bonds with concrete. The search didn't take too long to find Gorilla Glue. That's a moisture activated urethane glue and it has crack filling capability because it foams up during the cure. That was my first candidate but then I saw that Gorilla Glue makes urethane construction adhesives in a tube package. Seeing that I looked for urethane construction adhesive and found PL Premium which is well respected and a lot cheaper. Finally I saw a Bostick urethane subfloor glue sold by the 5 gallon pail that is lots cheaper.

So, with test blocks I'm going to saw cut it, glue it with different glues and try to install Fast Foot feet, see how well it holds screws, etc. I will even do some destructive testing and maybe test some different joist hangers just to see how well they can tie the hanger in to the concrete.

I have heard that there might be some relatively local builds happening with The Perfect Block so I might go and take a look.

Any way, I am going to see for myself pretty soon.

Most on here like the poly foam guns....there is much conversation on here about how to make them last and clean if you search in google and add greenbuildingtalk in the search string.

I never leave a empty can on mine, never clean other then the outside of the tip. Be quick changing out to new can.

I will probably have a foam gun for the insulation and sealing phase but I really like the idea of stacking block with a caulking gun and not having clogged tip issues. I'm worried that I won't stack quick enough to keep the foam gun from clogging. It's about a 30lb block and you are supposed to keep it straight and plumb as you stack, not using the supports to do it during the pour. It will be slower to stack but I think that is my opportunity to get everything perfect.

Most of my fabrication experience is metal with tolerances in the 0.001"s fairly common so I'm going to take my time and be pissed off if my 23' wall is 1/8" out of plum...

If I can stack and glue about 50 blocks a day, I should be able to complete the stack in less than two weeks. The promotional videos show a girl stacking block at probably twice that pace. Of course it was a simple straight wall, no opening bucks to put in and it was on top of a course that was already level. Mine is going to have a few difficult details that I want to get right, like the garage door openings. The buck is going to have to be precise and strong to support the weight of the block stacked over it. The door openings can all be spanned by a single top block but I will have two tricky window openings that span two blocks but not as much span or weight on top. Then there is the deck. There are three areas that I would like to use the block in a ceiling/floor orientation. It I can figure those out and get the idea past my planning department, I'm going to need some interesting bracing for those.

All of these things make me fear clogged tips because I don't know how fast I'll be stacking and it might be a bunch of block really quick followed by a few blocks placed very slowly.

I was looking at some testing of the PL Premium product and Gorilla Glue which seems to be a similar formulation and the bond seems to be more than good enough, with gap filling just like the foam. The only thing is I will have to wet the top block so the glue is able to moisture activate and gap fill.

One more thing, I'm thinking of making a few plywood jigs to plumb and level the block and clamp it in place it while the glue is curing. This might be a time saver for the simple portions of the wall and let me hit that 50 block a day average.

The company also has a pretty slick plywood grouting funnel to direct the concrete in to the form instead of spilling over the top from splashing or overfilling. It seems like a good idea for the final lift of concrete and should make for a cleaner jobsite. I think they say patent pending but I think I can copy it with a bit of plywood, some 2x4 and a Skil Saw.

On a previous note, going down a rabbit hole of pallet rack info, I stumbled across rack supported buildings which are tall warehouses with the roof and exterior cladding structurally supported by only the rack structure within the building. It's very efficient for warehouses and I could use part of the concept to turn my RV cover/storage garage in to a a really sturdy structure but I think it would require engineering to get past my planning department. There are a few places that sell carport components so I could make my own kit with all of the features I want but it is expensive compared to the base model buildings. One more thing for the wish list...

The $40 foam guns allow the gun to be used for years.....When empty you just quickly screw on a can....you might have to take a razor blade and clean the outside of the tip daily.

https://www.homedepot.com/s/foam%2520dispensing%2520gun?NCNI-5

These are the guns....I have one that is almost 20 years old but others that only lasted a year.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/GREAT-STUFF-PRO-24-oz-Gaps-and-Cracks-Insulating-Foam-Sealant-341557/202892471

There are many other manufactures but this will be easy for you to get and it is what everyone uses.....don't try to reinvent the wheel....at least with ICF