Hi everyone! First time poster...reader for a long time. I am trying to figure out if the house plan that my SO designed would work as an ICF build but havent found the information im looking for. I am looking at Nudura and consulted the lintel and reinforcement tables but havent found a clear answer. I will consult an engineer for a proper design but i just wanted to know if this is doable or not first. Can we build a second story ICF wall over the first level wall which has two 9 foot garage doors in it? Or would the second story be too heavy? The first level wall is 30 long with 2 garage doors evenly spaced and the top level wall would be all ICF 8 feet tall with a few small windows. Can this be done? Have you ever built a second story ICF wall over wide spans? Thanks for your help!

In Michigan, ICF has been in the last two cycles of the state code book....I would go down that road first and if that doesn't give you what you need let us know. There is a very old PCA book that you can download but don't know if building officials allow it anymore.

https://buildblock.com/asked-answered-prescriptive-method-talk/

You can also ask your building official.

Took a 2 day Nudura course 20 years ago and at that time they had the best lintel guidelines of anyone. I'm sure they still have them. Did what your asking in 2004 with no problems. I would definitely bring an engineer into the mix. What we did was build a box beam between the two doors with lots of rebar and we poured 10" wall in the front where the doors are in order to allow for the extra rebar. We used #5 in that part of the wall and lintels were #6. The big question is how much space you have over the doors. The foundation was built into a slope so we went with 10' high walls for the foundation.

Thanks for your answers! Seems the more i read the more confused i get. I am probably reading the charts wrong... i havent found much that mentions opening larger than 6ft with an ICF wall above it. Is it me or are those are very conservative numbers? The Nudura tables have wider spans but dont mention what type of walls are sitting on top of them if any. I find it hard to believe that there isn't more information about multi story builds with a garage on the first floor and a second story icf wall above it.

This is similar to what we would like to build except the garage doors are on the side instead of the front.
https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5278079/split-level-converting-garage-design-ideas Smartwall...is rgis similar to what you built?

Thanks

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5278079/split-level-converting-garage-design-ideas

Hi,

9 ft lintel is not a big deal. I did 12 foot opening for the window. If I remember correctly this is the widest opening that Nudura and Fox Blocks has in the tables.

I did put 2 #6 rebars in my lintel and 36 inch stirrups, you also have to have at min 2 ft wide columns holding your concrete beam (header) on each side.



I find that first floor openings are easier as you have room to go up building your beam. Second floor openings are trickier where you have wide openings and only 12" or so to support roof and roof loads.

What do you have above garage door? wall or windows?

If windows how much solid concrete can you have between top of the door and bottom of the window?

Hi,

9 ft lintel is not a big deal. I did 12 foot opening for the window. If I remember correctly this is the widest opening that Nudura and Fox Blocks has in the tables.

I did put 2 #6 rebars in my lintel and 36 inch stirrups, you also have to have at min 2 ft wide columns holding your concrete beam (header) on each side.



I find that first floor openings are easier as you have room to go up building your beam. Second floor openings are trickier where you have wide openings and only 12" or so to support roof and roof loads.

What do you have above garage door? wall or windows?

If windows how much solid concrete can you have between top of the door and bottom of the window?

Hi,

9 ft lintel is not a big deal. I did 12 foot opening for the window. If I remember correctly this is the widest opening that Nudura and Fox Blocks has in the tables.

I did put 2 #6 rebars in my lintel and 36 inch stirrups, you also have to have at min 2 ft wide columns holding your concrete beam (header) on each side.



I find that first floor openings are easier as you have room to go up building your beam. Second floor openings are trickier where you have wide openings and only 12" or so to support roof and roof loads.

What do you have above garage door? wall or windows?

If windows how much solid concrete can you have between top of the door and bottom of the window?

I have wall and a few small windows above the garage doors. There is about 4-5 feet of solid concrete between the top of the garage door opening and the bottom of the windows above it.
Thanks

It's been 16 years but the original windows on second floor were tall and switched to windows further off the floor and I believe one was taken out in order to give more height over garage openings. At that time it was a crap shot so it was overbuilt. It was a chalet style with the doors on the gable end and it went all the way to the peak. Wife was pissed about shortening and losing one window. But it's still standing. I just checked and we used I-59 of the Precriptive Method and added heavier rebar to be safe. Looks like the PM says you need a 24" lintel with 2 #6 and strirrups for 12'3" opening and 8" wall thickness.

Wow, thanks for all the great info...really happy we wont have to change the plan to build with icf. i will go back and consult the PM.