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Last Post 10 Mar 2022 03:55 AM by bigdog100. 10 Replies.
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2bornot2bUser is Offline
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02 Feb 2022 07:52 PM
There was a local icf manufacturer in the denver area that made forms by building dipping styrofoam balls into cement and then forming them into blocks with columns for voids. I am wondering if they went out of business as you can't collapse and ship them like the traditional sheets with spacers that are common. Does anyone know of a company that still exists?
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08 Feb 2022 01:05 AM
https://theperfectblock.com/
2bornot2bUser is Offline
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08 Feb 2022 05:39 PM
They might work with their mobile technology, but they are in Arizona which would mean a high transport cist for air.
smartwallUser is Offline
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08 Feb 2022 06:46 PM
I would check out their installation video. Any form that you need to use shim shingles to keep your wall plumb may be a problem.
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09 Feb 2022 03:00 AM
Also hard to find merit in a product that weighs more and has a lower R-value than ICF.
Borst Engineering & Construction LLC - Competence, Integrity and Professionalism are integral to all that we do!
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09 Feb 2022 03:14 PM
Being of sound mind, I defintely agree with what the gentle lady says.
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09 Feb 2022 06:57 PM
Thanks Smartwall...LOL! Always good to see some civility and kindness these days...even though I have largely given up on expecting rational or altruistic behavior... Gayle
Borst Engineering & Construction LLC - Competence, Integrity and Professionalism are integral to all that we do!
RickICCFUser is Offline
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16 Feb 2022 12:18 AM
Hi Everyone contributing to this thread. I am Rick Tindal, cofounder and Vice President of Eco Building Systems Corp (EBS) in Phoenix, AZ. I was given a heads up that our company, EBS and the "gray block" ICCF, The Perfect Block (TPB) that we manufacture was being mentioned and I thought I would respond to clear up any misconceptions or answer any questions about our Insulated Composite Concrete Forms (ICCF) that you might have. We are still in business and have been since 2008. Before that, we were ICCF builders and still are ICCF builders as well as an ICF manufacturer. You can research us on our website, https://theperfectblock.com/ and download for free, our 185 page comprehensive Technical Construction Manual or view 40 or more videos on YouTube (keyword: theperfectblock). Please feel free to call me. ICF Construction Training and technical consultation is always free. I have attached a blog I wrote a few years ago to give an overview of our ICCF and "gray block" in general and best describe the use for "gray block ICF in the green building industry. Reintroducing to the World of Green Building: The “Not So New” Gray Block Insulated Concrete Form (ICF) by LtCol Rick Tindal USAF, Retired Co-Founder of Eco Building Systems Corp In light of the ever-increasing desire to find the “next big thing” in the world of construction, it seems appropriate to reintroduce a green building material that has been around for almost 60 years that is used in building all over the world but is surprisingly not well known in North America. Let’s welcome back to North American building construction, the “gray block” insulated concrete form (ICF) to the green building industry. This ICF could be the “next big thing”. So why is this a “reintroduction” of this ICF and why is it not so new? The gray block ICF has been around for some time now but there are many misconceptions of the block or form. And awareness to the public as the tremendously sustainable and fire-safe green building material that it is, is virtually nonexistent. A reawakening to the sustainable building industry is in order. Imagine what a blessing to “green living”, a simple building block would be, that is many times stronger than wood or metal framing, costs less than wood or metal framing, is easy to build with, requires little or no bracing during construction, saves energy, is mold and termite resistant, earthquake safe, hurricane and tornado safe, reduces noise pollution, and here’s the big one ……. it’s fire-safe! Gray block just doesn’t burn, melt, or vaporize when exposed to high temperature open flame. All this in a block made with 100% recycled material and proprietary cement admixtures. Wouldn’t this building block be worth a second look when choosing the building material you want to use to build your next home? Or as an architect, developer, or contractor, with your client’s best interest in mind, shouldn’t you add this material and others like it, to the material lists you are familiar working with, so you can offer to your clients, a choice of the best materials available for construction and allow your clients to make an informed decision on the type of home they want to live in. So, let’s answer the first two questions we posed earlier: what is a gray block ICF and why is it not so new? First, gray block ICF is a stay-in-place concrete form (an ICF), the forms are stacked together much like traditional brick or block. When the cores of assembled gray blocks are filled (grouted) with concrete and reinforcement steel (rebar), the cured structure provides a permanent framework of superior strength for a "screen-grid" of reinforced concrete to form highly insulated stem walls, load-bearing walls, shear walls, non-load bearing walls, sound attenuation walls, lintels, perimeter walls, retaining walls, and many other components of a building. This concrete wall system makes a very strong and quiet home, safe from the perils of natural disasters. Gray block ICF is made from clean 100% recycled, post-consumer, post-industrial, expanded polystyrene (EPS), intercepted before filling valuable volume in the world’s landfills. The manufacturers of gray block ICF are using a modern-era waste product that would be filling the world's landfills to create a much-needed energy-efficient building block or form. The recycled EPS is ground into an aggregate and mixed with water and proprietary cement admixtures and molded into building blocks. Gray block is an ICF but it has its own name: ICCF or insulated composite concrete form. For decades, ICF has been commonly known to the building industry as the lightweight white EPS foam panels linked with plastic web ties, “white block”, and awareness of the gray block ICCF has been relatively obscure. Why is this? Maybe it is marketing, or maybe it’s because it is vastly different from its white block brother and hasn’t received the recognition it deserves because it is so different. Because ICCF is a composite mixture of ground-up recycled EPS and cement, it has its characteristic gray color which differentiates it from other "white block" ICF and is referred to as an ICCF. The name ICCF accurately describes the gray block ICCF as a composite mixture of materials and easily distinguishes it from its more well-known “white block” brothers. As to why gray block ICF or ICCF is a “not so new” gray block ICCF, the appearance of gray block ICCF actually predates white block ICF. ICCF has been around since the 1960’s. With the invention of EPS shortly after WWII, in a short time, the innovative uses for the lightweight foam skyrocketed and not long after the intended use for the foam in its original application became unnecessary, a troublesome refuse problem arose. As their landfills were filling with EPS foam refuse with a lifespan of nearly 500 years, the Europeans saw a need and were the first to develop a use for the nuisance foam trash by grinding it up and mixing with cement creating a new and useful green building material made from the world’s trash. ICCF was born. As a “green building material”, there are very few building materials that can compare to ICCF. The ground up EPS used by most manufacturers is strictly confined to being 100% recycled EPS. No new manufactured EPS beads are ever added to the mix. When that recycled EPS is mixed with the proprietary cement admixtures and the forms are made, the percentage of recycled EPS in each and every form is 85 to 87% which gives the forms its considerable insulating properties. The remaining volume of the forms is the cement mixtures which give the forms its strength and its fire-resistant properties. Because the forms are cementitious mix of recycled EPS and cement, ICCF surfaces can remain exposed outdoors to the extremes of all kinds of weather and UV radiation for years without degradation and exposure damage. The term, “green building material” is not just buzz words to capture one’s attention, thousands of cubic yards of EPS are intercepted each year from their once most likely resting place, the world’s landfills. That discarded EPS foam is repurposed and used to make a most beneficial “green” building block for the construction industry. In practical use in construction, ICCF construction has proven to be an overly simple building material to use for all types of commercial and residential building projects. Gray block ICCF is denser and stronger than white block ICF and requires no or minimal bracing to create plumb, level, and straight walls saving time and money and ICCF will not "float" when grouting the internal form cores with heavy, wet concrete. Contractors and DIYers alike, tout that only minimally skilled labor is required to build with ICCF. With a rapidly growing unskilled labor force that is occurring today, this opens many opportunities for work for unskilled labor and provides chances to achieve working skills with ICCF that will produce the foremen and supervisors for future ICCF builds. ICCF is not a structural block, but a sturdy, stay-in-place form to hold heavy, wet concrete (grout), reinforced with rebar in its internal cores until the concrete hardens to create a super strong insulated wall system. In common ICCF construction, the ICCF blocks are stacked, one after another, and in subsequent courses, on top of each other in a “stacked” bond to save time and labor. Building with a “running“ bond, like typical brick and block construction, is unnecessary because the strength of the wall comes from the hardened reinforced concrete within the internal cores of the ICCF. The blocks are plumbed and spot glued with foam adhesive as they are placed. No mortar is used, and no masonry skills are ever needed to build with ICCF. The blocks can be placed horizontally (most common) or vertically for more efficient construction when needed, maximizing design flexibility. A simple angled cut with a circular saw on a vertically placed block will easily create a round wall of any radius in minutes. Most common carpentry tools are all that are needed to work with ICCF forms. ICCF can be cut with hand saw but an electric chainsaw and cutting guides are the preferred cutting tools for contractors. The most useful tools in your tool belt will likely be a keyhole saw and a tape measure. Because ICCF wall material can be easily cut and shaped with common tools into infinite and unique design features for load and non-load bearing walls and architectural features, ICCF brings great design versatility to building construction. Another added feature of ICCF that adds to its convenience and utility in construction is the surface of the ICCF. The surface of ICCF is coarse. It has, what is called in the business, “tooth” or “teeth”. What this means is that “tooth” is a term to describe a surface's ability to hold or grip a substrate. ICCF’s inherent textured (slightly rough) cementitious surfaces can hold cementitious exterior stuccos, thinset mortars, and interior plasters or drywall joint compound without additional furring, layer of rigid foam, and wire lath and tar paper, or house wrap eliminating many costly additional materials and labor-intensive steps required with other building materials to clad exterior and interior walls. When you can eliminate layers of building materials in your walls and the labor to install them, that means cost savings. The manufacturers of ICCF and builders using ICCF building material, hope to educate the home building and home buying public that there is a more sensible and less costly building material available as a building alternative to the traditional wood framing construction. Today, the opportunity to change the hearts and minds of “the wood builders” is greater than any time in the past. The heart-breaking tragedies that we witness on the news with regularity are constant reminders of the tremendous vulnerabilities and liabilities that accompany those building with wood. The devastation from the loss of life and property to fire and natural disasters could be minimized by simply stopping the common practice of building and rebuilding with the very same material that failed the victims of such losses the first time and every time they are faced with the natural disaster threat of wildfire and extreme weather. If you got this far, thank you for sharing your time. Thanks, Rick Tindal
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16 Feb 2022 05:42 PM
Good info but some paragraph breaks would have been nice... I very much like that ICCF uses recycled EPS.

We have never used ICCF but we have much experience with ICF. We have never encountered the ICF float issue often mentioned as a concern. But we always used a bracing/scaffolding system. You need a scaffolding system if you are building walls taller than 6'. So a system that provides both scaffolding and bracing enables constructing tall walls that are straight and plumb...and the blocks don't float or move during the concrete pour. I can't imagine not using a bracing/scaffolding system with either ICF or ICCF, so I don't see any ICCF advantage over ICF in this regard.

ICCF weighs more than ICF, so it would take much more effort to construct walls using ICCF than using light weight ICF blocks. ICCF uses both concrete and EPS, so it has a lower R-value than ICF. So I don't see any ICCF advantage over ICF in this regard.

As far as fire resistance, ICCF by itself is more fire resistant than ICF by itself. But this really isn't relevant as the material used for the interior and exterior finishing ultimately determines the fire resistance of the completed wall assembly. We typically use fire resistant fiber cement siding to finish the exterior and fire resistant drywall to finish the interior. Our own personal ICF home survived two wildfires with zero damage...photos on our website. I can't imagine building with wood these days... We couldn't get homeowners insurance at any price if we built with wood in our area. Anyhow, I don't see any ICCF advantage over ICF in this regard either.
Borst Engineering & Construction LLC - Competence, Integrity and Professionalism are integral to all that we do!
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23 Feb 2022 08:19 PM
The real issues with all these products is transportation. Any time you transport building materials with air, your costs spiral with every mile from the plant. The advantage of the web icfs is that they can collapse the void that is to contain the structural concrete. For diy people it would be great to have forms for blocks and a mobile aircrete sustem so wnd users could build blocks on site.
bigdog100User is Offline
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10 Mar 2022 03:55 AM
Can you help with a project in Arizona?
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