In as much as I love SIPs and what can be accomplished with them, if you were looking for a sound proof music studio like tgorle then SIPs may not be the best  solution for his application.

His shell may sound like a drum, but so would any empty shell before the finishes are installed and had better not have any hard surfaces on the floor either, as it will bounce around as well. 

if this was so important at the get-go, It would have paid to consult an acoustical engineer in the begining instead of the sour grapes now.

As bpickartz stated, I also having a "real life experience" with dozens SIPs  residential and commercial buildings I don't recall any customers complaining of acoustical problems and if anything they applaud the panels for their ability to isolate the outside noises.

Chris,

That's why I'm wondering what's driving the difference in perception. 

In every field, there are people who know more or can percieve more than the average person.  I know that in photography and woodworking I percive more than most, but I've known people in both fields that put to shame my ability to percieve what's there.  Could it be that the skill level and hearing of a person who wants that level of facility makes them individually sensitive to noises or frequencies that don't bother you or me?

Very respectfully,
Larry

My house is the noisest house on the block. The walls that have Nova Brick on them are pretty darn quite. The sides with vinyl siding capture the noise and send it down the wall all the way around corners. Kind of keeps ya awke at times.

I'm furring out Hardieboard siding with 7/16" osb strips every 12". Will this help keep exterior sounds down? My windows are triple pane. Will that help too? There is lots of glass on this house.

Gary,
I would really rethink using osb as furring strips due to swell issues, especially ripped strips, unless you installed them absolutely dry and protected them with a wrb somehow. PT would be a better choice.

Gary;

not so sure about OSB strips?  16" oc would be better (the further the spacing the less sound transmission points) and  steel RC-1 channels would be even better as they are specifically designed for sound control

I have not yet used these products, but I'm considering them to reduce noise from neighboring apartments. http://www.domesticsoundproofing.co.uk/soundproofing/acoustic_membrane.htm Yeas the above is a UK site, but I could not find the link for the product that I had. Similar products can be found in the U.S. http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/isomax/edd.html?gclid=CN316vDsyZQCFQRJFQod5HPwlQ I'd always heard that SIP houses were extremely quiet. Have I been misled?

How about these products? We need something, these walls are driving the family nuts!

Would it be better to stop noise before it hits the OSB, or would these products work?

http://www.templeinland.com/BuildingProducts/Fiberboard/SoundChoice/default.asp


http://quietsolution.com/html/quietrock.html?gclid=CNrW07eOtJMCFRUasgodpi_JCw

The walls that have Nova Brik are very quiet, but  doing the whole house is not an option.


Thanks!!

If Nova Brik on the whole house is out of the question because of expense, what about stucco? Wouldn't adding a layer of something cementitious help?

How about solid core siding, it may increase the STC by up to 10.

Keep it simple! .............. RC-1 channels, it iswhat they are made for!

Hector,

Like all other building materials, SIPs transmit high and low frequency sounds at different rates of conductivity. SIPs that are made with OSB skins and 4" (3 5/8") 1 lb. density EPS cores seem to transmit low frequency sounds much worse than high frequency sounds.  The reasons for this is the period and amplitude of the sound wave it's self.  For example, a high frequency sound wave, say 100 MgH also contains the all the same wave amplitude of a low frequency wave of say 10 MgH.  (Think of the amplitude of the sound wave as the height/trough of the wave, and the period as the length of one wave high and low).  In short the higher wave amplitude's are reduced to the lower amplitude of a low frequency sound, so only the low amplitude portion of any sound wave goes through the wall.

The International Building Code (IBC) provides for party walls to have a Sound Transmission Score (STC) of 50 by design, and 45 if measured on site.  SIPs of the construction I mentioned above, generally do not do well with this score.  There are manufactures such as Quite Rock Solutions that sell a sound blocking high density gypsum type of drywall.  Typically, 1/2" drywall was used in a STC test by a major manufacture who reported that four sheets of 1/2" drywall would not consistently meet the STC required score for design (50).  Quite Rock Solutions offers a product called Quite Rock 501 that advertises that when used on both sides of the wall a STC score of 68 is attainable.  They have a chart to show the likely STC score for various applications.  I do not recall the web site URL; however, their web site address can be found by searching for the company name.

 

Good luck!

Matt B. Phelps, P.E.

Advanced Green Building Products, LLC

[email protected]

Until I saw this thread, I was led to believe, (by the SIP industry), that SIPs made super QUIET houses. Now I want to tour an actual SIP house before building.

I have not yet bought land, and I wouldn't build near a freeway, (I want a quiet country house), but there will be things like washer/dryer, dishwasher and a heat pump.

"Want to build",

Please by no means judge all panel systems  the same,  and depending on the materials, they all perform a little different.

This is a great market, with a bright future, except, some systems need to work the "Bugs" out.




I have another sips house as a nieghbor, his is really, really quiet compared to mine. His foam is white. I cannot remember the manufacturer, but I can find out for you, if you wish.

Hey guys,

I've been away from this board for a while, as I've been insanely busy erecting and enclosing my timber frame. I'm pleased to see the discussion still going on, and thought I'd add what little I've learned.

First, though my intention was to stick frame an enclosure around my timber frame and pack it with cellulose, I ended up using SIPs. I regret that now. But at the time, I was scared to leave my timbers out in the weather any longer than neccessary. On the plus side, I did get the frame enclosed in two weeks and I have a very tight enclosure. On the down side, the road noise is pretty bad (more on that later), and I have nothing to nail siding/roofing/trim to but 7/16" OSB. That second problem is something I hadn't considered. OSB doesn't hold a nail very well. I'm also freaked out about water getting to that OSB, mostly through the roof. If that roof has a leak anywhere, it will be a monsterously expensive repair.

But back to sound transmission. Sound travels into your house in two basic ways:

The first is direct transmission. Pressure waves in the air strike your house walls, the wall vibrate, and that produces pressure waves in the air inside your house. Ideally, you'd want as much of the sound energy as possible to be dissipated in your wall assembly. SIPs are terrible at this. There are no internal joints to slip, so you get virtually no damping. The SIPs are extremely lightweight, so they are excited easily. And the low-weight/high-stiffness means that their natural resonant frequency is high. All of that means that they transmit lower frequency sound very, VERY well.

The second way that sound gets into your home is through flanking paths. Basically, any air path into your home is a direct path for sound. I've read some sources that claim even small openings - the equivalent of a 1/4" hole - can completely defeat the best wall sound-proofing. In this respect, SIPs are GREAT. With proper attention to detail, they provide an extremely tight envelope that blocks these flanking paths.

I beleive those TWO factors explain why some folks say their SIP homes are quiet, while others complain about the noise. Blocking the flanking paths will be most effective in stopping the high-frequency noise, but will do very little for the low frequency. People in the country won't be able the hear the birds and crickets, but people near a roadway will curse every truck and Harley that drives by.

Kevin,

Before I spent big bucks on a fix, I'd make sure you don't have any air paths through your noisey walls. After that, you're looking at the same alternatives I've been contemplating - add mass, space the heavy siding off the wall, add QuietRock or Green Glue to the interior walls. Interior absorbtion (carpeting, heavy drapes, overstuft furnature.) will help too.

Want to Build,

Take a close look at where you're building. If it's away from low-frequency sources (roadways, airplanes, frat houses), then SIPs will likely be very satisfying for you. The appliance noise you spoke of is an internal problem. You can always stick-build a super sound-isolating wall that will keep your washer/dryer and heat pump noise from traveling through your home. You'll have to buy a nice, quiet dishwasher, unless you want to put it in your laundry room. In any case, the SIPs have little to do with interior noise.

Hector,

Have you heard of any success stories with Quietrock? 

"Home Depot" has a procuct that replaces OSB, is covered with tar and is meant for soundproofing.
I might make a trip to the nearest Home Depot this weekend to investigate the product.

It would be a pain to do, but stopping the noise before it hits the wall would be best.

I am up for any idea's. 

Someone mentioned stucco, but I do not think that this would help much. The Nova Brik does help
alot in the living room. It covers the full height of the outside skin.  Actually, it is pretty darn nice in the living room. 

thanks for your help, and idea's.     

Kevin,

I sounds like you may be talking about Homasote (sp?). This product has been used for years for sound reduction. I think it does work, but not sure how well.

In my opinion, you should be looking at these strategies, and then search for products that fit each strategy...

1) Make sure you're sealed up tight. Caulk, foam, tape, do whatever you have to do to seal every break in the envelope.

2) Add mass to the wall. Mass helps you two ways. 1) It lowers the resonant frequency of the wall. All sounds above that frequency will not pass through easily. 2) It takes more energy to excite. Adding mass is one of the few strategies that works well for low-frequency noise. I would think that a thick coat of stucco would add significant mass to your wall.

3) Add damping. By all accounts, Green Glue and QuietRock are very effective. Depending on your finances, the QuietRock may or may not be affordable. For me, it's not. With a bit of effort on your part, you can make your own QuietRock with standard drywall and Green Glue.

4) Decouple the transmission path through your wall. The more direct the path through your wall, the better it will transmit sound.

For my house, I plan to install fiber cement siding (mass) on plywood spacers (decoupling) on the exterior wall. On the inside, I plan to put 5/8" drywall on Green Glue (damping). I also invested in high STC windows.

Kevin;

Celotex used to make a black colored sheathing made from shredded corn stalks, pressed and asphalt impregnated. It does have good accoustical properties

Homosote is another good sound attenuation board

Please visit this link for sound proofing tips, using steel RC-1 channels or steel hat channels, something we do in EVERY home and yet many OSB guys call it a waste of money?
The 1-1/2" hi-hat channels we use greatly reduce electric wiring costs due to not needing to "fish" the wires thru chases and no need to cut the skins, which I have read from other posts can lead to unnesessary air infiltration


http://www.soundproofing.org/soundproofing-printer-friendly.htm

Thanks guys, this is the help that I needed.  First of all.........Green glue? Manufacturer?

Celotex, sounds like the material that Home Depot is selling. I will take a drive and check it out this weekend.

I will study the site concerning RC-1 channels.


My wife and I really do appreciate your help, and advice.


thanks!!!