SIPS site supervisor
Last Post 02 Mar 2009 12:32 PM by CTP. 42 Replies.
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lisa6801User is Offline
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01 Mar 2009 07:04 PM
That gives me encouragement.  Now I am seeking more advice/experience:
I have researched and finally came to the conclusion that geothermal may be to expensive for me and on top of that I am now not convienced that I would get the pay back I thougth. My rational is if I go with ICF for basement then SIPs for walls and SIS for roof along with foam insulation that it will be a very good envelope. So with that said I am now looking at dual fuel Heat pump and narrowing down my choices to Lennox, Rudd and last Carrier.  Lennox is also coming out with a SEER 15 that has a solar panel for the fan later this year as a ghee wiz. 

Anyway I know to make sure that I am shown the J calculations and also I read somewhere in these forums that to ask what they use to determine the numbers--understand that Wrightsoft Right Suite is very $$$, and very good so "Joe smow" HAVAC guy would not be using it .  This also can give you room  by room H&C load cal's as well as total.

What should I prepare to give the HVAC bidders beside house plan, insulation, building material (SIP/ICF) type windows and doors?  

I even looked at solar in a small way to try to use but it is still cost prohibitive to me here in VA.  Even with the 30% tax rebate it is still way to high for my pockebook. 

Has anyone thought ahead to wiring in for solar later if the prices comes down.


Lisa


cmkavalaUser is Offline
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01 Mar 2009 07:17 PM

Lisa;

 

i think you answered your own question..... don't use a Joe Shmoe.... use a HVAC contractor or designer experienced with high performance building systems.
An improperly designed system will wreak havoc in the future



Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
CTPUser is Offline
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02 Mar 2009 12:32 PM

Lisa,

I represent a NC based company called Eco-Panels and I hope that you are getting the information that you need to make an intelligent decision.  After years of working on the building science side of residential construction I joined Eco-Panels because it was the best SIP product on the market and what I felt comfortable building my house out of.  Although I am a fan of using SIPS and support the industry it can get complicated working out which will serve your needs best.

1)  OSB can be affected by long term exposure to the elements, but so can most materials used on sips.  Have you looked at companies that use the ZIP system (www.huberwood.com) as the exterior skin?  No need for housewrap and the problems it can create.  Are the SIP companies you are considering glueing the skins to the styrofoam or are they a using a much higher performing polyurethane insulation that is fully injected as one entity?

2) Stucco should not be a problem on most SIP skins.

3) Most SIPS from my experience do not need a crane for walls regardless of the skin (yes for roofs, but not applicable to your project).  We do offer steel as one of our many skin options, but for the $'s not usually advisable.  Are the SIPS you are considering have the electrical boxes already integrated into the panels?  Are they using a PVC conduit or just burning a hole for a chase and hoping it all matches up properly and is user friendly?

4) Some SIP companies provide panels direct from the factory without a middle man or dealership.  Sometimes this affects pricing, sometimes it doesn't.

5) Geothermal is an excellent energy source, but defining the thermal boundary is where the $'s should be spent first (I don't know a single building scientist who would disagree with this).  When considering the affective R-value, make sure you include any splines, corner build ups or studs that seperate the panels as we are the only company that provides a continuous thermal boundary--no splines, studs or corner build ups (fully insulated corners and internal cam locks).  Also, make sure that whatever system you decide upon, the HVAC professional is providing a full manual J load calculation including framing factor, orientation, overhangs, affective R-Value, climate zone and window and door values. 
 
6)  Bay windows can a do add to the costs and complications.  This has been an area of continual weakness when I perform energy ratings for homes.  Eco-Panels has the only fully insulated corners in the industry while providing 90 and 135 degree options--weakness solved!

7) I do not know of any SIP companies in VA or WVA for you to look at.  Because I would not use an EPS based SIP or any for that matter that use splines or studs to connect panels, Murus out of PA provides a good product, but still no fully insulated corners.  Also, you can have a hybrid timerframe set-up, but make sure the SIP manufacture can create panels that have integrated beam and rafter pockets to make set-up much easier while provide a much better thermal and structural boundary.  Read the fine print when it comes to warranties, specifically how it relates to delamination.

8) Yes, use SIPS, but please understand that pricing a system is complicated.  After years of testing and inspecting homes, building my own home and the fact that you are looking at being an owner-builder, the more integrated and user friendly (dummy proof) the system is, the more it pays for itself financially and emotionally.  We continue to get feedback from professionals in the industry that using Eco-Panels was much easier, quicker and with fewer headaches that some of the cheaper SIP systems they had used in the past (not to mention stronger and more energy efficient).  Also, if you are building a really tight house, please make sure to use proper ventilation.  In your climate, I would stronger suggest an ERV with a HEPA or carbon based filter for better IAQ.

Lastly, what type of roofing material are you planning on using?  EPS or any open cell foams for that matter is subject to melting at relatively low temperatures.  Many other countries now regulate the use of EPS because of safety concernes as it relates to fires.  Just a heads-up.

Craig
www.eco-panels.com



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