Hello,
I am planning on building a 28x32, two story home with a walkout basement. I am going to use raised heel pre fab trusses for my roof with blown cellulose. I would like to use SIPs for the exterior walls and would like to go with 10" walls with either Neopor or XPS for an R-Value in the 40's.

Other than price, what are the pros/cons of wood vs metal SIP Technology?

Is installation of the system the same? What about other installations? i.e. sheetrock,siding, roof trusses,etc)

From another post I got a ballpark cost of $3.50/sq ft wood EPS SIP and $4.50-5.50 for metal EPS SIP. What do the experts think?

Graham,
I think that price of $3.50 and $4.20 was for 8".
Rich Melius

You are correct sir! My mistake....soooooo how much are 10" neopor and xps SIPs per sq/ft in both metal and osb?

Maybe Greg and Chris will answer that. They were the ones who gave the above prices.

Although any SIP construction will save 50 – 60% in energy costs, are 3 times stronger than frame, and are more environmentally friendly. Steel is a better choice for the following reasons

 

Advantages of Steel SIPs vs.OSB

 

v  Steel will not warp, swell, twist, rot

v  Rain during construction do not affect materials in any way

v  No cranes needed for installation a steel SIPs are lighter than OSB

v  The underside of the roof panel automatically forms an attractive finished soffit overhang or exterior porch ceiling.

v  Joints are a T&G friction fit they do not require splines, mastic or fasteners greatly speeding installation time

v  Steel is more stable during manufacturing and panels are held to 1/16” tolerance

v  OSB is limited to 24ft. in length …Steel SIPs are available up to 53ft. in length, eliminating butt joints

v  Steel panels are manufactured on a continuous line making them available in square pre-cut lengths in  ¼ ” increments, but only charged to the nearest  inch., OSB often rounds up to the nearest 2 ft. increment – making you pay for waste that gets thrown away

v  Higher ” R – Value” denser foam provides a 4.25 R- value per inch of foam

v  No Termites … Impervious to termites and carpenter ants , foam core is borate treated

v  No foam grooving is required for window and door openings, after cutouts are made, openings are simply “picture framed” with 18.ga. steel channels

v  The steel skin is the “vapor barrier” on walls no additional covering is required before siding is applied

v  Eave overhangs can be 4 feet with no additional support

v  Sound Control – utilizing a 1-1/2” steel furring strip creates a dead air space for improved STC ratings.

v  Wiring – utilizing that same air space, wiring is much easier than fishing wire thru OSB and any future retrofit wiring is easier.

v  Will not support mold growth – painted galvalume steel skins are UDSA approved

v  Indoor air quality is better due to the tighter and cleaner construction material of the interior

v  Any steel building is safer from lightning strikes

v  “Monocoque construction” All connections and attachments are with screws having greater pullout strength than nailing

v  For economy or insulated utility buildings, steel SIPs have been left exposed as the finished siding and roofing.

v  Zurich Ins. In partnership with the Steel Framing Alliance offer reduced builders risk insurance premiums

I am building with steel SIPS, so of course I favor them in the comparison. But there is one con that I could mention, and that is the need for all the brakemetal. All connections which are not the panel-to-panel, require the use of brakeformed metal. And depending on the connection details of your structure, most all of it is custom formed and can be quite expensive. OSB SIPs rely on dimensional lumber for these connections, and while in my eyes lumber is less desirable than steel for many reasons, it IS however readily available. In the case of brake metal for example, if you run out of one profile then you have to go back to the metal shop and custom form it again. If you run out of lumber you just go to the nearest home center or lumberyard.

But I still wouldn't use OSB SIPs.

gmink21

If you choose a metal SIP system, make sure if is properly detailed for a cold climate. Panel connector components should be thermally broken and panel skins running from exterior to interior should be saw cut.

Are these steel SIPs galvanized painted steel surfaces? Interesting to hear that the skins are joined by a tounge and groove joint - is this a slip joint like as seen on rolled stove pipe?

- Another Graham

The steel is painted white, with a T&G friction fit allowing for foam to foam contact with no spline and engineered with no spline fastening.

It is as simple as it gets

i wonder if tests have been done for delamination with steel sips. with temp swings steel expands and contracts a lot more than wood. that can cause the bond between the foam and the steel to fail after many cycles. i know of a patio door manufacturer had trouble with their metal clad patio doors a few years ago if they were on the sunny side of a house. the doors were delaminating because of metal movement.

Of course tests have been done for steel sips, steel sips do expand more than wood, but is not drastic, steel sips  do not skrink or warp like wood products, we have posted previously an accelerated aging test preformed by an adhesive lab that shows the steel sip unaffected by freeze thaw/heat cylcling but the OSB falls apart and is untestable half way thru the cycling.
A patio door filler probably goes thru no test at all as it is not  a structural component such as steel SIPs that have withstood the test of time for decades being used in the cold storage industry, where temperature swings are extreme 100 deg. outside and -30 inside, but still perform.

Glad you know of a patio door that fell apart .............. but where is the relevance?

I'm building a modest home similar to gmink21, 44x30 on a walkout basement. House will have a truss roof so I can cram in more insulation (R-50-ish) and because I needed a large attic. Plans have already been submitted for permits as "regular" OSB SIPS and I should get them back this week but I could write an addendum and proceed with another technology if that is warranted. I originally really wanted ICF's for this house due to the strength and added mass, but wound up with SIPS due to my desire for classic R-value in my climate (and lack of availability of non-Portland-based concrete. Yes, I'm a tree hugger...).

Anyway, my biggest concerns with SIP's have always been protecting the OSB long-term because this house needs to last my wife and me 50 years - after that my nephews can worry about it. Metal-skin SIPs seem to have come on strong since I designed the place a few months ago. Does anyone know the availability of such panels and expert installation in/around St Louis Missouri? I am concerned about the break metal requirements as I have framers lined up to provide side-job framing and I would need to go back the the drawing board on labor if I need sheet metal-oriented labor instead. Some SIP mfgrs send an installation crew along with the panels but not sure how to go about making that happen

I'm generalling this house myself. The contractor I originally worked with on this project actually told me that I'm capable of building this house on my own, and he will remain available to consult on an hourly basis as needed. I'm an engineer, and more knowledgeable than most laypersons on construction techniques and products, but I freely admit my ignorance in many areas and I can't afford to make any big mistakes.

I guess I'm just looking for reassurance that, if the housewrap, flashing etc. are done properly then the OSB will last but I am willing to go any extra miles to ensure that it happens that way including I&W membrane around windows or anything else that is a sound belt & suspenders approach to added OSB skin protection. Thanks to all of you for your great input on this and other topics, this is a great resource.

lomecevak;

estimates are free ............. due to the downturn in the economy we find ourselves travelling distancesto stay busy, we generally would send just 2 experienced steel sips installers and utilize 2-3 local laborers to complete install.
We would be happy to quote a supply and install price to you

that is a piss poor test for delamination from metal expansion. a 2 inch specimen tested for 15 cycles? where i would be concerened is a long roof span where long lengths of the metal skin could move while the foam will not. this causes a seperation of the bond. anyone who has worket with metal knows you have to allow it to move or it will work itself loose from whatever is fastening it.

vhehn,

The bond between the metal and the foam would only fail if there was a manufacturing defect present. What is more likely to happen is that the thin layer of foam impregnated by the urethane glue right next to the metal skin would shear away from the rest of the foam through fatigue. So the question is how does the foam perform under those conditions. I believe the foam is elastic enough to accommodate the movement over time.

I just finished a set of drawings for a 4000s.f. metal SIP house for Montour County, PA. I can't wait to hear how it performs in that type of cold climate. It is using 6" x 26ga. Steel x 2.4lb. PIR Core SIPs (R45). Its the first cold climate metal SIP home I have done. Theoretically it should work. We will see.

Sorry I confused you, that is not a delamination test, it is an accelerated aging test that uses extreme temperature differences to do the test, since foam is flexible to some extent the expansion and contraction is obsorbed in the EPS core. You will find more "shearing" in PU because it is more rigid. But as Jeff points out that would only occur if there was a mfg. defect.
thermal expansion will not cause a panel to fail..

Instead of  making unfounded statements like "anyone knows" or " there was a door that fell apart once" please state actual data regarding metal based SIPs to support your concern.
The proof is in the long term success of the product.
.

Jeff;

it will perform just fine, JA built with metal sips in Calgary, which has more severe winters than PA

"Instead of making unfounded statements like "anyone knows" or " there was a door that fell apart once" please state actual data regarding metal based SIPs to support your concern.
The proof is in the long term success of the product."
actually it was of thousands of doors that had to be replaced because metal glued to foam would delaminate when subjected to heat cycles. i dont know if your sips would
be subject to the same problems but your hostile reaction to my questions lead me to believe there have been other questions/problems. personally i would advise people not to buy
the product unless there was a delamination guarantee. are you willing to give a minimum 10 year delamination replacement guarantee? if so i will not mention it again.

was the glue to EPS or was the door core PU, it really does not matter because we are comparing a non-structural door core to a tested 3 party inspected and certified structural component that carrys a 20 year guarantee

I am not sure why you wouldn't use steel sips for the roof. I built 60 X 32 two stories wnad use steel sips for the roof as well. I love the 14 ft open gabled roof on my up stairs.