Quick question, but important; Does anyone know if it is possible to use the SIPs Panel as the exterior walls of the home and paint it or even better, apply a spray on Vinyl that would require little to no maintenance? It has been suggested we paint to save $, but I'm skeptical and I'm not getting that "Warm and Fuzzy" feeling it will work. Does anyone have any experience doing this?

Posted By DaveS on 11 Apr 2010 12:25 PM
Quick question, but important; Does anyone know if it is possible to use the SIPs Panel as the exterior walls of the home and paint it or even better, apply a spray on Vinyl that would require little to no maintenance? It has been suggested we paint to save $, but I'm skeptical and I'm not getting that "Warm and Fuzzy" feeling it will work. Does anyone have any experience doing this?

Dave it can be done , we are currently doing this home in New Orleans , the owner is going to simply caulk the wall joints and the roof panels are already water tight


http://neworleanssteelsips.shutterfly.com/

There is a product called Grailcoat which is a polymer and powder mixture that can be directly applied to OSB sips as an exterior (probably interior as well) finish. It takes three coats, and because of that it is relatively expensive (I researched it once, and if memory serves me correctly, it was close to a buck a square foot). Don't know if you can use it for a roof, but then, I really don't know that anyone would want to either.

Doesn't someone make a SIP with a cement board outer panel? OSB seems like such an odd choice - will rot (without protection) on the outside and isn't suitable for an interior surface. So you have to double up on both sides.

Dick;

I am a certified Grail coat applicator,  The stuff just does not work as implied. Grai Coat has changed their corporate name/ structure , from what I understand to avoid lawsuits

There are many others like this...........

http://www.bobvila.com/wwwboard/messages/298060.html

Posted By jonr on 11 Apr 2010 02:20 PM
Doesn't someone make a SIP with a cement board outer panel? OSB seems like such an odd choice - will rot (without protection) on the outside and isn't suitable for an interior surface. So you have to double up on both sides.

jonr;

there are many fibercement skin panels, but the panels are limited to 12 ft. tall lengths, it becomes difficult to effectively waterproof the horizontal joints on gable walls

On Steel SIPs, I understand that Grailcoat can blister. I suspect that it is a result of applying the product to a substrate that wasn't sufficiently above the dew point temperature to ensure that no moisture was trapped beneath the polymer. But, I haven't heard of any problems when it is properly applied to OSB.

A quick search online shows quite a few issues with Grailcoat over OSB SIP panels. Plus why risk doing business with a company who apparently dissolved their old company just to make another selling the same product? Smells of shady business practices.

Bigrig, what problems did you find? And, how can I tell that they have dissolved their old company to form another? I certainly am the first to call a rat, a rat. But in my research I haven't found that either of those two bits of information.

there are many fibercement skin panels, but the panels are limited to 12 ft. tall lengths, it becomes difficult to effectively waterproof the horizontal joints on gable walls

Point taken for other than single story, hip roof homes. Perhaps more applicable to a stucco covering in taller homes.

Posted By Dick Mills on 11 Apr 2010 08:04 PM
Bigrig, what problems did you find? And, how can I tell that they have dissolved their old company to form another? I certainly am the first to call a rat, a rat. But in my research I haven't found that either of those two bits of information.

You can look at the company history by checking sunbiz.org.  I don't know about specific problems but it does appear the company has recently reformed under slightly different names.  I had been looking at their system as well as dryvit or stuccoflex.  This along with other things I have been hearing has changed my mind.

If a metal skin SIP is used, adding a paint coating to the exterior is no problem (except aesthetically). With a wood skin panel one is asking for trouble.

I have to jump in here. Not all metal skin SIPs are created equally. If you have a steel SIP like Chris Kavala uses that has a nice tight interlock and fits the receiving channel perfectly, then caulking the seams and painting the skins is definitely a good option.

If you have a steel SIP with a big clumsy interlock and deep ribs in the skin profile, like Alumashield (Kingspan or Gefco) then you can forget about it. Your structure will NOT be watertight.

Posted By Dick Mills on 11 Apr 2010 08:04 PM
Bigrig, what problems did you find? And, how can I tell that they have dissolved their old company to form another? I certainly am the first to call a rat, a rat. But in my research I haven't found that either of those two bits of information.

Just a VERY quick search pulls up these threads from this site:
http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/4/aft/60843/afv/topic/Default.aspx

http://gbt.buildcentral.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/5/aft/26427/afv/topic/Default.aspx

And the sunbiz for the old company (note the manager name)
http://sunbiz.org/scripts/cordet.exe?action=DETFIL&inq_doc_number=L99000002327&inq_came_from=NAMFWD&cor_web_names_seq_number=0000&names_name_ind=N&names_cor_number=&names_name_seq=&names_name_ind=&names_comp_name=GRAILCOAT&names_filing_type=

And the new (same manager)
http://sunbiz.org/scripts/cordet.exe?action=DETFIL&inq_doc_number=L07000043342&inq_came_from=NAMFWD&cor_web_names_seq_number=0000&names_name_ind=N&names_cor_number=&names_name_seq=&names_name_ind=&names_comp_name=DJGRAIL&names_filing_type=

Same manager, same city and one company liquidated  at about the same time the second is created. As far as I know there is only one real reason to dissolve one company just to recreate it with a different name, and it is not for better customer support. If they did it once, why wouldn't they do it again?

As far as I know there is only one real reason to dissolve one company just to recreate it with a different name

I have worked for many companies in the past who changed not only their name, but their entire organizational structure. And none of those times did it have anything to do with anything untoward. In most of the cases, the reorg was the result of bringing on new partners, and in some of the cases involved substantial investments from those new partners, and the reorg was a requirement of the new investor.

If a company were being sued, and that company reorganized as a means of shielding assets from judgment, then it is highly likely that the commission of that felony would land someone's ass in jail. And, so far, I still have seen no evidence that any wrong doing was perpetrated. Nor has anything that you have posted here proven anything.

That none of you have been able to substantiate claims of wrong-doing, doesn't mean that they haven't occurred, but until they can be substantiated, then you only diminish your own credibility by claiming them to be absolute facts.

One thing that I will say, though, is that if Grailcoat had any patents on their product, those patents would have long since lapsed. And, if their product was, in fact, as "perfect" as they claim, then the loss of patent protection would have opened up the market to anyone to compete with them. And, I could be wrong, but as far as I am aware, no competitors have entered that market.

In getting back to the original line of the thread.
I once heard about an architect in the northeast who used the product that is used to spray lining in truck beds (Rhino Linings?)
on the outside of SIPS homes. Anyone else ever heard about this being done?
I know from practical experience that it is some tough stuff. Wonder how it would hold up on a house?

Dear Wes,

I used to spray polyurea, wich is what is Rhino Lining, and we though to spray it on sip's panel for sealing the sip's roof panels, i bought the equipment and everything, we tough it could be a good idea...and we had another market for balcony,
and we began manufacturing SIP's panel at the same times, the market we were working oin was industrial and commercial in Canada.

What we found is on OSB, the polyurea need a lot of thickness to seal the board, and it became expensive because of that, and to seal the joint on the job site became a problem, it could have been done with a cold polyurea, but it needed dpecial equipment,
it wasn't worth it.

Soo think another solution, go away of that one....and it was an architect who gave us this idea, up north....he tried to spray it himself and got out of the market.

DO NOT TUCH THIS...that is the best recommandation i could give you.

Stick with the SIP's wich is the best idea that architect gave us.

Pierre Desjardins
Baneroan Panels
450-546-9047

Banerpan, that would have been my first thought as well... that it would be prohibitively expensive. Has anyone ever considered a fiberglass layup with a gel coat on the exterior on any SIPs (OSB, Steel or FCB)? It also might be prohibitively expensive, but a layer of resin sprayed resin with chopped roving, smoothed out, and followed by a gel coat (or two)... Probably would have to be applied prior to installing any windows and doors... They do make boats out of this stuff for a reason...

Dick....stop talking....you will kill our research and development project we have now.....LOL

I cannot talk about it, until we have results

Pierre Desjardins
Banerpan Panels