waltz
New Member
Posts:2
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| 12 Nov 2010 05:15 PM |
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I am looking for ideas and details to install SIPS panels where only one side is accessible. The "exterior" side is against existing construction. Think and urban row house - and infill, which is the condition I have.
I need 1 HR fire rating, which requires gypsum seams finished per UL assembly, as well as deaing with the seams where panels are joined. Any ideas appreciated (moisture migration being the issue there. Again no access so can't do a Tyvek wrap or similar.
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 13 Nov 2010 11:26 AM |
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waltz;
no problem using SIPs for infill, some sips are capable of acheiving 1 hour fire rating if the have been tested to that criteria, I have used exterior gypsum. |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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SimonD
Basic Member
Posts:167
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| 13 Nov 2010 11:42 PM |
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I don't think there is a SIP solution to your problem that is practical, cost effective and has a UL listing. You may have to use unit masonry to achieve a 1 hour fire rating and be weather tight without access to one side. |
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| Building Designer PANELfusion, LLC Tampa, FL [email protected] "Metal SIP Advocate" |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 14 Nov 2010 07:29 AM |
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Simon;
we have successfully used our panel which has been tested to ASTM E119-05a (1 hour) using EPS foam core panel and 5/8" type X on the inside and 5/8" type X (exterior drywall) on the outside.
the project was a 3 story residence in Hillsborough County , Florida
masonry walls to not guaranty a watertight wall and would be horroble for thermal efficency |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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Fergie
New Member
Posts:30
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| 14 Nov 2010 07:44 AM |
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Waltz,
Can you provide me more details of the height and the length of the required wall, what is it abutting as well? |
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| R.J. Fergie Fergusson |
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SimonD
Basic Member
Posts:167
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| 14 Nov 2010 12:30 PM |
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Chris K,
In Waltz case, how would you apply the exterior gypsum board without access to that side? The only way I can think of is to assemble the panels on the ground/slab then preinstall and finish the board and then tilt the whole wall up at once. Not so practical.
If I had a UL test that would prove it, I would use metal panels which are weather tight without finishes, install those and put two layers of 5/8" type x on the inside to achieve a 1 hour rating. |
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| Building Designer PANELfusion, LLC Tampa, FL [email protected] "Metal SIP Advocate" |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 14 Nov 2010 12:45 PM |
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Posted By SimonD on 14 Nov 2010 12:30 PM
Chris K,
If I had a UL test that would prove it, I would use metal panels which are weather tight without finishes, install those and put two layers of 5/8" type x on the inside to achieve a 1 hour rating. it would only be 1 hour from one side? |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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JeffD
Basic Member
Posts:282
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| 14 Nov 2010 12:46 PM |
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When one talks about an assembly of materials that is fire rated, one should also specify weather the test demonstrates a "load bearing" or "non-load bearing" capability. If it is non-load bearing the wall must not support a roof or floor. Additional structure in front of the wall would be necessary for support. |
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| Metal SIP Building Designer<br>jeff@panelfusion(dot com) See us on Facebook |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 14 Nov 2010 01:00 PM |
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Posted By JeffD on 14 Nov 2010 12:46 PM
When one talks about an assembly of materials that is fire rated, one should also specify weather the test demonstrates a "load bearing" or "non-load bearing" capability. If it is non-load bearing the wall must not support a roof or floor. Additional structure in front of the wall would be necessary for support. ours is load bearing up to 3 stories |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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JeffD
Basic Member
Posts:282
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| 14 Nov 2010 01:31 PM |
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Chris,
Can I look at the report? Do you have a UL number? |
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| Metal SIP Building Designer<br>jeff@panelfusion(dot com) See us on Facebook |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 14 Nov 2010 05:17 PM |
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Posted By JeffD on 14 Nov 2010 01:31 PM
Chris,
Can I look at the report? Do you have a UL number? was tested in accordance with UL 263, and was loaded @ 1,299# per lft. ,the whole report is lengthy , but I can e mail you part of it |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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Dick Mills
Basic Member
Posts:217
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| 14 Nov 2010 07:39 PM |
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Chris, do you have a way of fabricating a finished (at least on the outside) wall with steel SIPs, that could then be "tilted-up" or something when there is no clearance on the outside of the wall?
Maybe cut openings on the inside of the panel where the foundation bolts come through the bottom plate or track or whatever, so that the wall could be bolted to the foundation after it is tilted up?? Might cause more problems, though with gaping holes right at the locations where more stress might be focused... might also need several of them over the length of the wall... |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 14 Nov 2010 07:51 PM |
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Dick;
we would figure it out, it would be good to know what the existing wall is constructed of in order to plan a strategy to solve the problem |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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Jelly
Veteran Member
Posts:1017
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| 14 Nov 2010 09:03 PM |
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Getting fasteners on the hidden side of the base track is the only real challenge right? Would it work with a long screw that would pierce the first leg of track, both skins of the panel, then the second leg of track? |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 15 Nov 2010 08:56 AM |
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Posted By JeffD on 14 Nov 2010 01:31 PM
Chris,
Can I look at the report? Do you have a UL number?   |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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waltz
New Member
Posts:2
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| 16 Nov 2010 11:19 AM |
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Thank you all for the comments - further details
-2 or 3 story dwelling uinit, 50' depth
to Fergie:
-first floor SIPS panels 11'-4" height, bearing,1 Hr fire rated both sides (abutting wall is masonry likley brick party wall of existing row houses)
-See SIPS.org Hanging Floor fig 10, condition is similar, floor trussed hung off panel with Simpson hangers
-We are considering an 11'4"x50' long wall pre constructed and titled up. Vertical seams can be addressed but Horizontal seams then become the problem.
-Regarding Fire Ratings only one I can find is UL U524 which I'm told is the only one can be used with panels > 8'
To Dick Mills, yes we would cut holes to access bolts.
To Jelly, yes fasters are a problem, thinking of both plates factory installed or prior to tilt up
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 16 Nov 2010 08:54 PM |
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Posted By waltz on 16 Nov 2010 11:19 AM
-Regarding Fire Ratings only one I can find is UL U524 which I'm told is the only one can be used with panels > 8'
that UL listing can only be used with Premier Panels |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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