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cmkavala
Veteran Member
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| 05 Oct 2012 11:15 AM |
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Lbear;
just inside that large window is a pit about 2' x 10' x 7' deep, I asked the owner about it and he said it was for the 100" LED TV that will dissapear into the floor!! |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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whirnot
Basic Member
Posts:186
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| 05 Oct 2012 04:00 PM |
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Wow what a building! Would I want it next to me? As long as it didn't reflect and cause a problem, Yes!
I like the way it disappears! |
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Rosalinda
Basic Member
Posts:353
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| 05 Oct 2012 08:48 PM |
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It is looking really spectacular Chris ! This one should be an award winner. Keep those pictures coming.
-Rosalinda |
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| Sum total of my experience - Designed, GCed and built my own home, hybrid - stick built & modular on FPSF. 2798 ft2 2 story, propane fired condensing HWH DIY designed and installed radiant heat in GF. $71.20/ft2 completely furnished and finished, 5Star plus eStar rated and NAHB Gold certified |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 13 Oct 2012 05:17 PM |
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If a steel SIP roof is used with an overhang, how much thermal bridging is experienced from the exposed underside of the soffit that then extends into the homes interior? I would assume quite a bit as the metal is exposed to the exterior and then it is one single piece to the underside interior.
One can't really have a thermal break there as that would compromise the strength of the SIP. One would have to eliminate any overhangs and end the SIP roof right at the wall to avoid thermal bridging.
I would be curious to see thermal imaging where the soffit and wall meet on a home with a steel SIP roof w/overhang.
Maybe Dana would know???
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 13 Oct 2012 05:44 PM |
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A saw cut of the bottom skin of the roof panel where it crosses the wall will create a thermal break in an overhang. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 13 Oct 2012 09:31 PM |
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Posted By Alton on 13 Oct 2012 05:44 PM
A saw cut of the bottom skin of the roof panel where it crosses the wall will create a thermal break in an overhang.
Wouldn't that cause a weakness in that area of the SIP? How wide of a cut would it be and would one have to fill that area with foam or some type of caulk? |
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jonr
Senior Member
Posts:5341
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| 13 Oct 2012 09:36 PM |
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Thin steel is not a particularly good thermal conductor in terms of btus. But if you know the cross sectional areas, you can calculate the R value easily enough. |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 13 Oct 2012 10:47 PM |
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The detail that I have seen consisted only of a saw cut width. The cut in the roof panel was about middle of the wall. The cut could not be seen after the roof panel was installed. (Foam or caulk really not necessary to hide the saw cut.) The roof panel has the option of being attached to the top of the wall before and after the cut. I do not think the roof panel lost much strength from the saw cut. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 14 Oct 2012 07:49 AM |
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Posted By Lbear on 13 Oct 2012 05:17 PM
If a steel SIP roof is used with an overhang, how much thermal bridging is experienced from the exposed underside of the soffit that then extends into the homes interior? I would assume quite a bit as the metal is exposed to the exterior and then it is one single piece to the underside interior.
One can't really have a thermal break there as that would compromise the strength of the SIP. One would have to eliminate any overhangs and end the SIP roof right at the wall to avoid thermal bridging.
I would be curious to see thermal imaging where the soffit and wall meet on a home with a steel SIP roof w/overhang.
Maybe Dana would know???
Lbear;
Alton's recommendation for the thermal cut is correct if the building is used in northern climates, However in southern and more moderate climates the cut is not needed as the interior and exterior TD is not extreme, similar thermal cuts are used in cold storage facilities where TD are extreme. It is also and issue for OSB and fibercement skins, but I have not seen a solution for the thermal transfer in OSB and FC? |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 14 Oct 2012 01:49 PM |
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Posted By cmkavala on 14 Oct 2012 07:49 AM
Lbear;
Alton's recommendation for the thermal cut is correct if the building is used in northern climates, However in southern and more moderate climates the cut is not needed as the interior and exterior TD is not extreme, similar thermal cuts are used in cold storage facilities where TD are extreme.
It is also and issue for OSB and fibercement skins, but I have not seen a solution for the thermal transfer in OSB and FC?
Are there any structural issues involved when you create that saw cut in the steel SIP?
Would you recommend the cut in Northern Arizona? One could experience high heat (95F) and low temps (5F) in that area.
On a different note, what is SIP creep? I heard that term during a conversation.
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JeffD
Basic Member
Posts:282
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| 14 Oct 2012 04:57 PM |
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Lbear,
There are structural issues when one makes a continuous cut in the skin across the width of a panel, but the loads may not be large enough to requier the overhang to be reinforced. If one were in a high wind zone where there is a lot of uplift at the edge of the roof one might want to frame the eaves for soffits to tie down the end of the panel so the wind wont break/hinge it up so to speak.
SIPs are tested for creep. Creep happens to all structural members under heavy sustained loads.
"Creep is the tendency of a solid material to move slowly or deform permanently under the influence of stresses. It occurs as a result of long term exposure to high levels of stress that are below the yield strength of the material. Creep is more severe in materials that are subjected to heat for long periods, and near melting point. Creep always increases with temperature."
It should not be an issue if the SIPs are not over loaded or being damaged to to high temperatures and moisture. |
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| Metal SIP Building Designer<br>jeff@panelfusion(dot com) See us on Facebook |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 14 Oct 2012 06:04 PM |
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Posted By Lbear on 14 Oct 2012 01:49 PM
Posted By cmkavala on 14 Oct 2012 07:49 AM
Lbear;
Alton's recommendation for the thermal cut is correct if the building is used in northern climates, However in southern and more moderate climates the cut is not needed as the interior and exterior TD is not extreme, similar thermal cuts are used in cold storage facilities where TD are extreme.
It is also and issue for OSB and fibercement skins, but I have not seen a solution for the thermal transfer in OSB and FC?
Are there any structural issues involved when you create that saw cut in the steel SIP?
Would you recommend the cut in Northern Arizona? One could experience high heat (95F) and low temps (5F) in that area.
On a different note, what is SIP creep? I heard that term during a conversation.
Lbear;
Creep applies to any material - is a slow change in the dimensions of a material from prolonged stress
I thought you were building closer to Phoenix?, but even in north Arizona, its a judgement call, its just a cut in skin, if it was my own personal home, I probably wouldn't do it. My next home will be in NW Geoegia, I will not be doing any thermal cuts there.If you keep the overhangs to 2ft. or under there would not be any structural issues. |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 15 Oct 2012 12:38 AM |
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Posted By cmkavala on 14 Oct 2012 06:04 PM
Lbear;
Creep applies to any material - is a slow change in the dimensions of a material from prolonged stress
I thought you were building closer to Phoenix?, but even in north Arizona, its a judgement call, its just a cut in skin, if it was my own personal home, I probably wouldn't do it.
My next home will be in NW Geoegia, I will not be doing any thermal cuts there.If you keep the overhangs to 2ft. or under there would not be any structural issues.
Q: How hot does it have to get for a steel SIP roof to experience creep? Are the steel SIPs rated to around 165F? The build is in the Northern AZ area of Chino Valley, AZ. (4,800 feet) The overhangs will be 24". I will cover the soffit area with the same metal material from the standing seam metal roof. I don't know if that will help reduce thermal bridging but it will somewhat shield the soffit overhang from direct sun exposure. I will probably NOT do the saw cut. It would be interesting to see how much TB goes on in extreme heat or cold. Too bad nobody has done a thermal image of the roof area where the soffit meets the interior. Q: You don't foresee any issues in really cold weather if the inner roof area by the soffit experiences condensation from the cold steel hitting the warm interior air, do you? (especially since heat rises) |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 15 Oct 2012 06:26 AM |
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Posted By Lbear on 15 Oct 2012 12:38 AM
Posted By cmkavala on 14 Oct 2012 06:04 PM
Lbear;
Creep applies to any material - is a slow change in the dimensions of a material from prolonged stress
I thought you were building closer to Phoenix?, but even in north Arizona, its a judgement call, its just a cut in skin, if it was my own personal home, I probably wouldn't do it.
My next home will be in NW Geoegia, I will not be doing any thermal cuts there.If you keep the overhangs to 2ft. or under there would not be any structural issues.
Q: How hot does it have to get for a steel SIP roof to experience creep? Are the steel SIPs rated to around 165F?
The build is in the Northern AZ area of Chino Valley, AZ. (4,800 feet)
The overhangs will be 24". I will cover the soffit area with the same metal material from the standing seam metal roof. I don't know if that will help reduce thermal bridging but it will somewhat shield the soffit overhang from direct sun exposure.
I will probably NOT do the saw cut. It would be interesting to see how much TB goes on in extreme heat or cold. Too bad nobody has done a thermal image of the roof area where the soffit meets the interior.
Q: You don't foresee any issues in really cold weather if the inner roof area by the soffit experiences condensation from the cold steel hitting the warm interior air, do you? (especially since heat rises)
Lbear;
Thermal imaging was done 8 years ago by the FSEC it showed a negligible thin line at the connecion, with nothing running up the roof interior, the camera picked up 1/4" differences and the drywall screws were visable as they change temperature faster than sheetrock. The steel would need to get to above 180 for long periods of time for any degredation of foam to occur, in field tests I have performed OSB and Fiber Cement both get hotter than steel,they do not have the ability to reflect. but I have never seen a finished roof get hotter than 145 even with black shingles I don't think the soffit is exposed to much sun unless when it is setting? |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 31 Oct 2012 03:58 PM |
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Updated Photos.................  ......................................  .................................................  |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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Torben
Basic Member
Posts:216
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| 01 Nov 2012 10:03 AM |
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That is an incredible project! thanks for sharing the photos. |
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Rosalinda
Basic Member
Posts:353
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| 03 Nov 2012 10:01 PM |
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No damage in the hurricane?
It really looks spectacular!!!!! Love the photos |
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| Sum total of my experience - Designed, GCed and built my own home, hybrid - stick built & modular on FPSF. 2798 ft2 2 story, propane fired condensing HWH DIY designed and installed radiant heat in GF. $71.20/ft2 completely furnished and finished, 5Star plus eStar rated and NAHB Gold certified |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 04 Nov 2012 02:48 AM |
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Posted By Rosalinda on 03 Nov 2012 10:01 PM
No damage in the hurricane?
It really looks spectacular!!!!! Love the photos
Rosalinda;
Trees down and power out, but no damage to building |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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Rosalinda
Basic Member
Posts:353
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| 25 Jan 2013 11:01 PM |
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Is it finished? I would love to see 360 degrees of images of the finished house. I tell everyone about this one!
-Rosalinda |
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| Sum total of my experience - Designed, GCed and built my own home, hybrid - stick built & modular on FPSF. 2798 ft2 2 story, propane fired condensing HWH DIY designed and installed radiant heat in GF. $71.20/ft2 completely furnished and finished, 5Star plus eStar rated and NAHB Gold certified |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 26 Jan 2013 01:30 AM |
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Rosalinda,
Our work was limited to just the SIP installation, we were done just before hurricane Sandy hit , there is a GC coordinating the interior finishes, some which include a hidden in floor 100" LCD TV, spiral stairs with lighted glass treads, I don't expect it will be finished until spring, but have been assured that professional photos will be forthcoming when complete.
The actual living area is only about 1000 sq. ft., one bedroom one bath, the garage is 30 x 80 with a 36 ft, high ceiling, a 400 sq. ft. mechanical room, 400 sq. ft. spray room, 50 KVA stand by generator (you can tell a man designed this with the important things in mind) |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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