I may not be searching with the right words. I'm interested in Structall's Half-snap walls. I like the idea of Having OSB in the inside to make attaching any thing any where with simple wood screws, Pictures, TV, Lights.... However I like the outside to be rot proof and nothing is more rot proof then steel or aluminum :) But Im trying to figure out how one would to finish the house in a simulated stucco like material? How does the it work? is there any problems with it?

Posted By Brian on 01 Feb 2013 10:35 PM
I may not be searching with the right words. I'm interested in Structall's Half-snap walls. I like the idea of Having OSB in the inside to make attaching any thing any where with simple wood screws, Pictures, TV, Lights.... However I like the outside to be rot proof and nothing is more rot proof then steel or aluminum :) But Im trying to figure out how one would to finish the house in a simulated stucco like material? How does the it work? is there any problems with it?

Brian,
Having used Structall's panel on a commercial installation 3 years ago , you should know that the interlock is very sloppy and has a void foam to foam big enough to stick my little finger in as shown on this link
structall interlock

Yeah I noticed that my self. Do you know of a product that might work? I've been also looking at transconsteel out of Texas. Im trying to find a product that both strong and seals well. I'll be building up in northern Colorado. While we don't get much rain we do get a lot of wind snow and subzero temps so an air tight build it paramount. I also want to keep any chance of rotting. I was reading about furring the panels to keep from having to cut in to the panel for wiring. so I think that negates the need for osb on the inside being that the wall would be furred out an inch plus.

However, my original question remains how does the sip type affect the out side finishing process with simulated stucco?

Posted By Brian on 02 Feb 2013 12:32 PM
Yeah I noticed that my self. Do you know of a product that might work? I've been also looking at transconsteel out of Texas. Im trying to find a product that both strong and seals well. I'll be building up in northern Colorado. While we don't get much rain we do get a lot of wind snow and subzero temps so an air tight build it paramount. I also want to keep any chance of rotting. I was reading about furring the panels to keep from having to cut in to the panel for wiring. so I think that negates the need for osb on the inside being that the wall would be furred out an inch plus.

However, my original question remains how does the sip type affect the out side finishing process with simulated stucco?

Permatherm has a solid foam to foam contact
the stucco texture is mearly and embossed steel that more resembles an orange peel than a stucco finish

Permatherm has the same texture or they have a shadowline that resembles vertical siding

Not really the look im going for. While it still look good I feel it look more like a metal wall of a barn. I want that rock feel of a stucco home that you get when you get up close. if it was a building that was rarely approached like a barn, then yeah that would work but I want it to the end result to look like this

Posted By Brian on 03 Feb 2013 10:49 AM
Not really the look im going for. While it still look good I feel it look more like a metal wall of a barn. I want that rock feel of a stucco home that you get when you get up close. if it was a building that was rarely approached like a barn, then yeah that would work but I want it to the end result to look like this

Then you need to wire lath and stucco like I did to my house

Thanks! I think I've got my eye on the Permatherm panels, Any thing I need to know and look out for?

Yes! Check with the stucco manufacturer about putting it over metal. It's probably not a typical approved substrate. The stucco hangs on the metal lath, but usually is decoupled from the sheathing by a two layers of tarpaper.

Posted By Kevin_in_Denver on 15 Feb 2013 03:27 AM
Yes! Check with the stucco manufacturer about putting it over metal. It's probably not a typical approved substrate. The stucco hangs on the metal lath, but usually is decoupled from the sheathing by a two layers of tarpaper.

Kevin,
There are many commercial steel buildings with wire lath and stucco over the skins, it is a common ICC approved installation,
I have wire lath and stucco on my own home,
We do recommend using paper-backed lath that serves as a bond break

Posted By cmkavala on 15 Feb 2013 08:21 AM

Posted By Kevin_in_Denver on 15 Feb 2013 03:27 AM
Yes! Check with the stucco manufacturer about putting it over metal. It's probably not a typical approved substrate. The stucco hangs on the metal lath, but usually is decoupled from the sheathing by a two layers of tarpaper.

Kevin,
There are many commercial steel buildings with wire lath and stucco over the skins, it is a common ICC approved installation,
I have wire lath and stucco on my own home,
We do recommend using paper-backed lath that serves as a bond break

What about using ice and water shield as a bond breaker?

Brian,
MFM company makes Sub Seal - 40 specifically for walls, will adhere to wood or metal, its just a little pricey compared to paperbacked lath

Posted By cmkavala on 15 Feb 2013 10:14 AM
Brian,
MFM company makes Sub Seal - 40 specifically for walls, will adhere to wood or metal, its just a little pricey compared to paperbacked lath

got a link? many companies name MFM

Since we are discussing metal SIP exterior finishing. How do you detail the SIP overhang? Let's say it is a 24" overhang on a pitched roof. Since the SIP has exposed EPS on the ends, what do you use to cover & protect that? Do you leave the bottom/soffit side 26 gauge metal exposed or covered with some type of aluminum soffit siding?

If the roof SIP is sitting on top of an ICF wall with stucco, how do you flash or seal where the SIP roof meets the ICF wall?

One process I've looked at doing is to not over hand the sips at all and frame the over hang out later. Here in Colorado this provides a break point in dangerously high winds or a tornado. If wind gets under and rips off the over hang then the rest of the roof stays and keeps winds from breaching the home. Just a thought

Posted By Brian on 15 Feb 2013 10:39 PM
One process I've looked at doing is to not over hand the sips at all and frame the over hang out later. Here in Colorado this provides a break point in dangerously high winds or a tornado. If wind gets under and rips off the over hang then the rest of the roof stays and keeps winds from breaching the home. Just a thought

Strength wise, you are better off leaving the steel SIP overhang, as it will take a very, very serious wind uplift to damage a 6"+ EPS core steel SIP overhang. As long as you keep the overhang under 24", you have a much stronger soffit than any wood framed soffit out there.

Doing a wood frame overhang would really complicate the transition detail, it would drive the costs up and kind of defeat the purpose of having a steel roof SIP. One of the main selling points of a steel roof SIP is its ability to act as an overhang for a soffit that is monolithic to the roof. No need to vent the steel SIP soffit. With a wood framed soffit, you would have to install vents so you can keep air circulating in there to keep it dry.

Posted By Lbear on 15 Feb 2013 10:35 PM
Since we are discussing metal SIP exterior finishing. How do you detail the SIP overhang? Let's say it is a 24" overhang on a pitched roof. Since the SIP has exposed EPS on the ends, what do you use to cover & protect that? Do you leave the bottom/soffit side 26 gauge metal exposed or covered with some type of aluminum soffit siding?

If the roof SIP is sitting on top of an ICF wall with stucco, how do you flash or seal where the SIP roof meets the ICF wall?

Lbear,
It is hard to improve on a prefinished product that already looks like a soffit
even this 1.3 million dollar home left the white 26 ga.steel skin exposed
the panels come with a matching fascia cover



A flashing detail, if any ,would be job specific, depending on the method of attachment to the wall

A closer shot of soffit on another project.......................................................................

Posted By Lbear on 16 Feb 2013 12:45 AM

Posted By Brian on 15 Feb 2013 10:39 PM
One process I've looked at doing is to not over hand the sips at all and frame the over hang out later. Here in Colorado this provides a break point in dangerously high winds or a tornado. If wind gets under and rips off the over hang then the rest of the roof stays and keeps winds from breaching the home. Just a thought

Strength wise, you are better off leaving the steel SIP overhang, as it will take a very, very serious wind uplift to damage a 6"+ EPS core steel SIP overhang. As long as you keep the overhang under 24", you have a much stronger soffit than any wood framed soffit out there.

Doing a wood frame overhang would really complicate the transition detail, it would drive the costs up and kind of defeat the purpose of having a steel roof SIP. One of the main selling points of a steel roof SIP is its ability to act as an overhang for a soffit that is monolithic to the roof. No need to vent the steel SIP soffit. With a wood framed soffit, you would have to install vents so you can keep air circulating in there to keep it dry.

Being that a Toronto provides very very serious winds its not a bad idea. I was thinking it could be done with metal studs but after look at the photo just posted leaving the soffit exposed looks pretty damn good! I just wish i could be flat on the bottom but all in all not a dealer breaker. Do you just cut the ends of the panel vertical for gutter attachment?

A plumb cut with matching fascia cap can be done or keep the fascia square and use a gutter wedge to plumb gutter............................................................................