Metal SIPs for enclosing an Indoor pool?
Last Post 10 Jan 2019 12:21 PM by cmkavala. 25 Replies.
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pcastlebergUser is Offline
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11 Mar 2013 10:03 PM
Not sure that many building "green" would have their own pool but we already have an outdoor pool and living in WI we would like to get more use out of the pool. So in planning to build we are looking at possibly putting in an indoor pool. Just wondering if anyone has ever used SIPs to enclose an indoor pool? I am without even really thinking about it crossing OSB SIPs off as an option immediately. I can forsee way to much risk with the higher humidity inherent to enclosing a pool. I don't think it would be so much of a question of if they would fail as much as a question of when. However I would think that Metal SIPs might be perfect for the application, they inherently have their own "vapor" proof skin, and if used for the roof and walls I would think the higher R-values would help better control the temperatures and thus better help control condensation and would allow the air/humidity control system to work better as well. If anyone has thoughts around using SIPs for such an application or has seen it done or done it I would love to know your thoughts. Thanks!
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11 Mar 2013 10:09 PM
Posted By pcastleberg on 11 Mar 2013 10:03 PM
Not sure that many building "green" would have their own pool but we already have an outdoor pool and living in WI we would like to get more use out of the pool. So in planning to build we are looking at possibly putting in an indoor pool. Just wondering if anyone has ever used SIPs to enclose an indoor pool? I am without even really thinking about it crossing OSB SIPs off as an option immediately. I can forsee way to much risk with the higher humidity inherent to enclosing a pool. I don't think it would be so much of a question of if they would fail as much as a question of when. However I would think that Metal SIPs might be perfect for the application, they inherently have their own "vapor" proof skin, and if used for the roof and walls I would think the higher R-values would help better control the temperatures and thus better help control condensation and would allow the air/humidity control system to work better as well. If anyone has thoughts around using SIPs for such an application or has seen it done or done it I would love to know your thoughts. Thanks!



Yes ,this is a perfect application for galvanized metal SIPs
Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
AltonUser is Offline
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11 Mar 2013 10:16 PM
Most pools that I am familiar with either use harsh chemicals or salt.  Both types will wreak havoc with metal unless the metal has at least a G90 coating of zinc on it.  Even then, I do not know what the life span of the zinc coated metal skins would be.

Most indoor heated pools that I have used had concrete walls which did well.  After a few years, the metal skin doors started rusting from the bottom up.

Since you will need good insulation in a wall not subject to rusting, consider using shotcrete panels with at least 1.5" of concrete on both sides with 4" or more of expanded polystyrene insulation inside.
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pcastlebergUser is Offline
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11 Mar 2013 10:32 PM
Alton I was kind of wondering the same thing about the chemicals. We would more than likely use a salt based system which essentially makes its own chlorine but if not we would probably use chlorine.

If we do this we would have a pool cover (automated) that would keep the pool covered at all times it was not in use to keep evaporation to a minimum and lower pool heating costs. We would also have a very good ventilation system in place to control the humidity of the air.

I would be curious if the rusting was more due to the humidity levels (and having condensation on the surfaces) or just to the chemical properties in the air?

Chris it sounds like you may have used Metal SIPs to enclose some pools? If so are there types of metal SIPs that are more suited for an application like this? Would aluminum skins be less likely to rust? Or are there G90 coated SIPs? If so are they significantly more in cost? You build in FL right? I would assume you have built close to the ocean? Metal SIPs close to the ocean need special SIPs?

Thanks!
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11 Mar 2013 10:57 PM
The gym pools that I frequent have good air exchange systems.  Never noticed high humidity here in the southeast pools that have the water heated with gas.  The pool rooms are air conditioned year around.

Another building system to consider since you are way up north is http://www.nuformdirect.com/residential.aspx  This system, after being planned properly, does not require much skill to assemble.  I had no trouble whatsoever working with this system my first time.  But I read the manual.
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cmkavalaUser is Offline
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12 Mar 2013 06:49 AM
I would reccomend G- 90 galvanized with a plastisol coating applied to coating before manufacturing. This is made specifically for harsh environments .............. or stainless steel is available one side only
Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
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12 Mar 2013 06:57 AM
Posted By cmkavala on 12 Mar 2013 06:49 AM
I would reccomend G- 90 galvanized with a plastisol coating applied to coating before manufacturing. This is made specifically for harsh environments .............. or stainless steel is available one side only
Specs,


REL-SHIELD®IV COIL COATINGS Lasting Color Is Only One Of The Advantages In addition to color retention, Akzo Nobel’s REL-SHIELD IV finishes are formulated for coil application. When applied as a two-coat system, the recommended primer and a REL-SHIELD topcoat over a properly treated substrate, they produce an extra thick and tough shield against weathering and corrosive atmospheres on HDG, Galvalume, Galfan, Aluminized Type II, or aluminum building components. Performance Qualities Film Thickness 4.0 mils minimum for the Plastisol Color Coat, per ASTM-1005-84. Appearance Smooth, ripple, and striated textures are available. Color Durability No more than 2 NBS* units color change after 2000 hours of accelerated weathering per ASTM 4587-86, Method B. *For method of calculation see ASTM D-2244-89, spherical geometry. Gloss 20 to 40% on a 60-degree meter is standard ASTM D523-89. Lower ranges upon request. Adhesion to Substrate The following test methods are performed on Rel-Shield IV without failures*: Impact ASTM D-2794-84 Bend ASTM D-4145-83 Cross-Hatch ASTM D-3359-87 *See Performance specification for details. Abrasion Resistance Rel-Shield IV will withstand a minimum of 200 liters of falling sand per ASTM D968-81 (1986), Method A. Humidity Resistance No blistering or loss of gloss after 3000 hours of 100% humidity per ASTM D2247¬ 87. Salt Fog Resistance No blistering or creepage after 1000 hours of salt spray per ASTM D B-117-85. Chemical Resistance No effect on physical properties after 500 hours exposure to most chemicals as listed
Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
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12 Mar 2013 07:18 AM
What about ICF walls with a synthetic stucco directly applied to the foam on the inside? That should be pretty inert to anything from the pool environment. If the wall isn't too high and you don't have any other special circumstances, you could drop back to a 4" concrete core ICF.
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12 Mar 2013 08:46 AM
I had looked at the possibility of an indoor pool and ruled it out once I started realizing some of the issues.  I've seen some gorgeous examples but the up front cost as well as ongoing cost put this far beyond what I was willing and able to spend.  My goal with housing was to build something very energy efficient and inexpensive over the long term.  I don't think that is possible with an indoor pool.

The following is what I found:
First of all I would make sure there is no sharing of HVAC between the pool and the house and that the house and pool have a well sealed separation.  The HVAC requirements are very different.  The pool requires many more air changes and has significant requirements for dehumidification.  A good pool cover when not in use can help as well as keeping the pool space at a higher temp.

The other issue is the chemicals used in an ordinary pool and their ability to quickly corrode materials in the pool space.  There are options for ozone and ultraviolet light water treatment instead but they are pricey and have their own problems.  Ozone is something you want to be very careful to not get into the air you are breathing.
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14 Mar 2013 12:11 PM
FYI, Metal SIP manufacturers will not warrenty any paint finishes on there products if they are exposed to a chlorine environment. Unless a special paint finish like Chris said is applied, the enamel coating will begin to fail and expose the galvanizing in the case of steel skins or the base metal in the case of aluminum skins. I think metal SIPs, aluminum skinned in particular, are a best choice but one would need to make sure they are sealed well on the interior to prevent corrosion on the inside, have their paint surfaces maintained yearly, and a monthly wash down to remove chlorine salts would be a good idea as well.
Metal SIP Building Designer<br>jeff@panelfusion(dot com) See us on Facebook
pcastlebergUser is Offline
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14 Mar 2013 12:19 PM
Thanks Jeff,

So if the Plastisol coating is applied would they then warranty it? Or no?
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14 Mar 2013 12:30 PM
Manufacturures generally do not offer additional paint coatings, so you would have to paint them yourself. Once properly painted then paint warrenty is not an issue. After that manufs will probably warrenty the structural aspect of the panel.
Metal SIP Building Designer<br>jeff@panelfusion(dot com) See us on Facebook
cmkavalaUser is Offline
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14 Mar 2013 12:35 PM
Posted By pcastleberg on 14 Mar 2013 12:19 PM
Thanks Jeff,

So if the Plastisol coating is applied would they then warranty it? Or no?



Yes the warranty is still good, the coating is applied by the coil manufacturer AKZO-NOBEL themselves.
coil backing remains the same where bond occurs
Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
pcastlebergUser is Offline
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14 Mar 2013 12:36 PM
So what your saying if I understand correctly is that it would be best to get it with the plastisol coating and then apply some kind of paint after installation to protect and seal the panel?

Does anyone have experience with what type of paints/coatings would need to be applied in this kind of scenario? (enclosing a pool)

To me the panels present a very elegant solution because if properly coated it would mean you wouldn't need to have special sheet rock, vapor barrier etc...etc...etc....The steel panel would provide all those attributes and be a great insulator to help keep the cost of heating/conditioning the air space down.

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14 Mar 2013 12:39 PM
Posted By pcastleberg on 14 Mar 2013 12:36 PM
So what your saying if I understand correctly is that it would be best to get it with the plastisol coating and then apply some kind of paint after installation to protect and seal the panel?

Does anyone have experience with what type of paints/coatings would need to be applied in this kind of scenario? (enclosing a pool)

To me the panels present a very elegant solution because if properly coated it would mean you wouldn't need to have special sheet rock, vapor barrier etc...etc...etc....The steel panel would provide all those attributes and be a great insulator to help keep the cost of heating/conditioning the air space down.




no, the plastisol is your protective barrier.
Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
AltonUser is Offline
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14 Mar 2013 12:40 PM
I think another option would be to use a system like Solarcrete.  No exposed metal to worry about rusting.
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pcastlebergUser is Offline
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14 Mar 2013 12:45 PM
So Chris, if I am understanding you correctly you are saying with the Plastisol coating that the panel would need no additional coatings and would be warranteed not to rust or corrode in that environment? If so how long is it warranteed for?

I know you build quite a few metal SIPs structures have you ever used it to enclose a pool?

Thanks!
Patrick
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14 Mar 2013 12:47 PM
Alton I am not familiar with Solarcrete...Is that a spray on type of concrete coating?
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14 Mar 2013 01:50 PM
I have no experience with this system but it appears to have several advantages compared to some other systems.  See http://www.solarcrete.com/    Since you are located in Wisconsin, shipping should not be that far.
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14 Mar 2013 02:00 PM
Thanks, I'll check into that as well, they look like they may be a good option too! I wonder how hard they are to assemble compared to regular SIPs?
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