We have been using Structural Insulated Panels on most of our new homes since 2008. Its common for these companies to get 25% prior to shop drawings and another 25-50% prior to fabrication with the remaining draw being due at delivery. We made our 75% deposit July 10th. The first scheduled delivery was for the week of July 16th. The owner of the panel company continues to avoid communication, not provide a firm delivery date yet promises we are a priority and we will get our product soon. After several admitted false excuses and one potential legitimate excuse the owner admits they are facing cash flow problems which makes for the obvious fear that the company is going bankrupt and the money is lost. We have offered to pay any necessary suppliers or delivery which the owner refused and even claims to have waived the last draw for all the trouble, which doesnt alleviate suspicions much. The 25% deposit was made made May 1st and the shop drawings took about 7 revisions to get right. The level of detail and engineering put into the design was a seen as a good thing at the time. This is our first business deal with this particular SIPS supplier. They do have a seemingly good history but are obviously in trouble. It appears our love affair with SIPS may be coming to a end. Any suggestions for peaceful and meaningful resolution?

Can you name this SIP manufacturer?

Yes, I second that, who is the SIP supplier?

Is it EcoPanels out of North Carolina? They make polyurethane SIPs.

On their website the typical bad-mouthing of EPS SIPs is done, referring to the core as the stuff made from styrofoam cups and how they melt at 180F compared to 800F of polyurethane. Unfortunately they fail to realize that millions of homes have EPS on the exterior and that polyurethane carries with it a much higher green house gas effect than EPS ever will. Plus the cost of poly is sometimes double that of EPS.

Back to the point of the thread. Is it EcoPanels of North Carolina?

It is not Eco-Panels. We wish we had gone with them as Ive used them before with great success. We are about to start another project with their roof panels and they are already built and ready to go. In this case, we thought that the EPS R-values (and extra work involved with a non-ZIP skin) would be adequate for the savings.

The owner of the troubled company contacted me to regretfully advise that I should use an alternate framing option. I was finally offered a full refund but I could not secure a date when. I will certainly reveal my full dealings with this company if I dont get a refund soon.

I dont like being the one to bring this issue up but home owners who dont want to do fair business are dangerous enough and now I have to worry about suppliers? You can tell Iam relatively new to this business huh.

Posted By Brian_K on 26 Aug 2013 06:25 PM
It is not Eco-Panels. We wish we had gone with them as Ive used them before with great success. We are about to start another project with their roof panels and they are already built and ready to go. In this case, we thought that the EPS R-values (and extra work involved with a non-ZIP skin) would be adequate for the savings.

The owner of the troubled company contacted me to regretfully advise that I should use an alternate framing option. I was finally offered a full refund but I could not secure a date when. I will certainly reveal my full dealings with this company if I dont get a refund soon.

I dont like being the one to bring this issue up but home owners who dont want to do fair business are dangerous enough and now I have to worry about suppliers? You can tell Iam relatively new to this business huh.

Sadly, there are quite a few SIP companies that have come and gone in the past 10 years. When the economic downfall of 2008-2011 happened, many of these companies took a big hit and couldn't survive because nobody was building, let alone using alternative building techniques like SIPs.

The reason why I asked who this company was, is to prevent others from sending money to them while they are going under. Gyms/fitness centers are notorious for doing that. When they are sinking and about to fold they continue to take in new membership money and then bail without notice, stealing all that money.

If you want to wait until you get your refund, that is fine but I hope nobody else is going to send them money and lose it because they didn't know they were going under.

Thanks Lbear, it is a concern of mine and one of the reasons I can feel better for airing this dirty laundry. If anybody is in the market for Southeast SIPS suppliers and its a concern, please feel free to contact me and we can vet it out.

Brian_K,
Do you normally use OSB/polyurethane SIPs?

Yes, we love them. Weve also used OSB/styrene SIPS with good results but Eco-Panels is the only urethane company weve used and as mentioned, so far so good. Our favorite attribute of urethane sips compared to styrene is they have most amount of R value per wall and roof panel thickness. Thick walls contribute to wasted space ($ per sqft) and I dont like how they effect the light from windows. Lots of other criteria to evaluate of course but those two things are very important to us. We also like the ZIP sheathing upgrade Eco-Panels offers.

Posted By Brian_K on 27 Aug 2013 11:01 AM
Yes, we love them. Weve also used OSB/styrene SIPS with good results but Eco-Panels is the only urethane company weve used and as mentioned, so far so good. Our favorite attribute of urethane sips compared to styrene is they have most amount of R value per wall and roof panel thickness. Thick walls contribute to wasted space ($ per sqft) and I dont like how they effect the light from windows. Lots of other criteria to evaluate of course but those two things are very important to us. We also like the ZIP sheathing upgrade Eco-Panels offers.

How do you pass code with the urethane roof SIPs since they are usually around R-25? Most likely less when you factor in that the panels have sections that are only 2" thick for wiring chases.

At least with EPS they can get them to R-50 with the 12" Type2 EPS panel.

Out here in Zone 4 they are implementing the 2012 IRC and it requires a minimum of R-49 for the roof.

Any update as to the refund?

Its common for these companies to get 25% prior to shop drawings and another 25-50% prior to fabrication with the remaining draw being due at delivery

Maybe that is a common practice and maybe it isn't, but after 30 years in business, I can tell you it is a recipe for customer unhappiness. I have heard this big deposit thing too many times in the building industry and consumers should not have to think that it is required of them. Don't make big payments in advance unless you can afford to lose it.

Its certainly changing the way we go about our business. I cant help but look at all our suppliers with suspicions now. My cabinet guy had some bad timing this week..

We use to use 5.5" panels for the roof when we use roof panels which gets us close to R40 with urethane. An 8" urethane would get pretty close to the 49.

No refund. After not returning calls all week the owner sent me a short email saying that my refund is built into the conditions of the "investor" he is trying to bring in. Sounds like another bad lie to me too. The company is an OSB panel company out of GA. Details will likely be revealed very soon. This is ridiculous I know.

I had a similar problem with a supplier. If he hadn't lied to me so readily and easily and often (and then stopped communicating with me altogether), I would not have had to send a very tough and angry bloke around to see him. It took one visit from an appropriately qualified debt collector to get my money back!!!

one visit from an appropriately qualified debt collector to get my money back!!!

"Appropriately qualified"? or properly licensed?

The owner has not answered or returned my phone calls in over two weeks so it looks like I will have to involve lawyers in an attempt get our money back.

SIPS Team USA of Bainbridge GA is the supplier. The owner's name is Ron Harrigan.

They were featured in a JLC article a few years back and do work for churches often. They have also done some work for the Make It Right foundation.

Apparently the company is still going and taking orders. People should be aware that this company is failing and any deposits paid to them are being used to pay other debts, unfortunately not the one to me. I am sorry to the employees of this company.

Posted By Brian_K on 20 Sep 2013 04:35 PM
The owner has not answered or returned my phone calls in over two weeks so it looks like I will have to involve lawyers in an attempt get our money back.

SIPS Team USA of Bainbridge GA is the supplier. The owner's name is Ron Harrigan.

They were featured in a JLC article a few years back and do work for churches often. They have also done some work for the Make It Right foundation.

Apparently the company is still going and taking orders. People should be aware that this company is failing and any deposits paid to them are being used to pay other debts, unfortunately not the one to me. I am sorry to the employees of this company.

If they are registered in that state, contact the Attorney General's office and file a complaint. Utilize the government agencies to help you fight the fight.