HVAC-Engineer
New Member
Posts:64
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| 26 Sep 2013 04:20 PM |
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I'm having a devil of a time finding steel SIP manufacturers or dealers in even any of the surrounding states of Oklahoma. I had no trouble finding plenty of OSB SIP people via the SIPA website, but it's like steel SIPs are mythical to this area. All of the threads I've found by doing an "Oklahoma" search on this sub-forum don't mention steel SIPs either. Does anyone happen to know any manufacturers or dealers anywhere near me that can give me a quote? I wonder if I can talk cmkavala to bid a job here. . . . |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 26 Sep 2013 04:51 PM |
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Steel SIP companies in GA, KY and FL. Texas has http://www.k-tect.com/sitepage.php?_p_=5 for walls. I do not know if they can be used for roofs. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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HVAC-Engineer
New Member
Posts:64
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| 26 Sep 2013 05:06 PM |
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Thanks Alton. Eastern states is all I've been able to find as well. Shipping would be outrageous. |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 26 Sep 2013 05:42 PM |
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SCIPS for floors, walls and roofs are available from Mississippi. See http://gulfconcretechnology.com/ |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 26 Sep 2013 07:20 PM |
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Posted By HVAC-Engineer on 26 Sep 2013 04:20 PM
I'm having a devil of a time finding steel SIP manufacturers or dealers in even any of the surrounding states of Oklahoma. I had no trouble finding plenty of OSB SIP people via the SIPA website, but it's like steel SIPs are mythical to this area. All of the threads I've found by doing an "Oklahoma" search on this sub-forum don't mention steel SIPs either. Does anyone happen to know any manufacturers or dealers anywhere near me that can give me a quote? I wonder if I can talk cmkavala to bid a job here. . . .
Like you, I am designing an ICF wall home with steel SIPs roof. It's the best combination except for maybe a SCIP roof or InsulDeck roof. Like you, SIPA acts like steel SIPs don't exist. SIPA is tied into the wood/lumber industry and they don't want to acknowledge that steel SIPs exist. When you look at the pros/cons or each product, there is no doubt that Steel SIPs have more pros than OSB SIPs. I would give Chris a call. Freight would be the only "downside" but it's worth it. I am freighting them all the way to Arizona. I have a black Trans Am providing cover for the rig  |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 26 Sep 2013 08:00 PM |
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Posted By Alton on 26 Sep 2013 05:42 PM
SCIPS for floors, walls and roofs are available from Mississippi. See http://gulfconcretechnology.com/
Alton,
I think they are closer to ICF's than SCIPS, I do like the stairs |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 26 Sep 2013 08:20 PM |
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Chris,
You lost me with your statement. I have used Insteel SCIPs. I think SCIPs are closer to ICF than SIPs. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 26 Sep 2013 08:42 PM |
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Alton,
your link for gulf concrete technology
they look more like ICF's rather than SCIPs |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 26 Sep 2013 08:49 PM |
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Posted By Alton on 26 Sep 2013 04:51 PM
Steel SIP companies in GA, KY and FL. Texas has http://www.k-tect.com/sitepage.php?_p_=5 for walls. I do not know if they can be used for roofs.
The only reliable companies are in Georgia, K-tect is not a SIP , it it a prefabricated stud wall with EPS insulation, not cutting edge technology, their own website states"Not a SIP" |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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HVAC-Engineer
New Member
Posts:64
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| 26 Sep 2013 10:17 PM |
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If there's no other options then I guess I'd just have to bite the bullet and pay the freight from GA. The problem now is that if there's no steel SIP manufacturers or dealers in the area, how could I fully rely on builders experienced with OSB SIPs to handle the steel SIPs? I'm sure there's a difference in construction method.
I like the idea of SIP over SCIP. If I were to go concrete roof I'd probably do a flat green roof similar to what Quad-Deck advertises, but that's another discussion. It might be more economical to just simply go with a wood truss system if the only other option is a concrete roof. |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 27 Sep 2013 02:55 AM |
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Posted By HVAC-Engineer on 26 Sep 2013 10:17 PM
If there's no other options then I guess I'd just have to bite the bullet and pay the freight from GA. The problem now is that if there's no steel SIP manufacturers or dealers in the area, how could I fully rely on builders experienced with OSB SIPs to handle the steel SIPs? I'm sure there's a difference in construction method.
I like the idea of SIP over SCIP. If I were to go concrete roof I'd probably do a flat green roof similar to what Quad-Deck advertises, but that's another discussion. It might be more economical to just simply go with a wood truss system if the only other option is a concrete roof.
A well seasoned OSB SIP crew will transition into installing Steel SIPs with a few training tips. I don't think it's drastically different except for the cutting of the SIP. Steel SIPs are actually easier to handle because they weigh a lot less. Two guys can carry a panel and cranes are usually not needed. It all depends on what your goals are. If you are in termite country you probably want to avoid wood truss systems. The same goes for wildfire areas and high wind/storm areas. A steel SIP will take a lot more beating than a wood truss with OSB roof sheathing would. The design of the home plays a big role also. My design has cathedral ceilings which makes SIPs a perfect fit. I can lay the SIP on the ICF wall and the other end on the exposed glulam ridge beam. The panel also overhangs 24" from the wall and makes for a nice soffit. That saves a lot of time and money vs. framing out a soffit and venting it. SIPs don't need to be vented so that alleviates another headache and ignition point if you live in a wildfire area. I will fur the SIP ceilings with a steel decoupling hat channel so I can run wiring and provide a sound break. I will also stuff some inexpensive R-13 batts up there to give a higher R-Value for the ceiling (R-63). |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 27 Sep 2013 07:20 AM |
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Lbear,
The transition is easier from OSB to steel , rather than steel to OSB
I would contend that a well seasoned OSB SIP crew is not even needed,
one lead man with good carpentry skills is all that is needed to know the basics - that things need to be:
plumb, square and level
I have seen many do it your selfer's do an excellent job of intsalling their steel SIPs. |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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Torben
Basic Member
Posts:216
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| 27 Sep 2013 09:34 AM |
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It's my understanding that metal SIPs were born out of the refrigerated building industry. Most of these companies do not try to sell their panels to be used as SIPs (they call them insulated metal panels not SIPs). That being said I purchased my panels from Kingspan and was very pleased with how they work (polyiso foam with a great R value). Two notes of caution: 1. The joints only fit together one way, you cannot flip these panels like the ones Chris Kavala normally uses. 2. You will not get any support from the manufacturer. The following are some of these companies with locations in Texas (the last one also in Oklahoma City).
www.insulated-panels.com
www.metlspan.com
www.nucorbuildingsystems.com
www.mbci.com |
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toddm
Veteran Member
Posts:1152
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| 27 Sep 2013 11:15 AM |
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Call your insurance agent or the OK Dept of Insurance, and talk to roofers, before you put steel roofing over steel SIPs. I have to confess that I have never seen a steel SIP and I don't know how roofing is applied. But, next door in Texas, insurance companies will ask you if your steel roof still sheds water after the hail storm. If the answer is yes, then you have cosmetic damage that they won't cover even if your roof looks like h*ll. Bottom line, you want decking under light gauge steel that doesn't give. Or buy alternative steel roofing, like stamped metal shakes, that can take a hit. The Texas Department of Insurance website lists hail resistant roofing products that qualify for insurance discounts. Asphalt shingles over any decking is fine in TX, too. Hail that knocks off grit and exposes the shingle itself is considered hail damage requiring a new roof. Again, your insurance rules will vary.
As you can see from these maps, there is not much comfort to be found from experience in the southeastern US. http://www.disastersafety.org/hail/protect-homes-from-damage/ In many areas of the plains states, you replace roofs on average every 7-10 years. |
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HVAC-Engineer
New Member
Posts:64
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| 27 Sep 2013 11:20 AM |
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Lbear, I'm like you in your design concepts. I'm designing around cathedral ceilings and would like a nice 24" overhang. The strength, simplicity, and performance are what attracts me toward steel SIPs. Being in Oklahoma, the high wind resistance is a HUGE factor. If you and Chris Kavala say OSB crews could easily transition into steel SIPs then it sounds like a pretty viable option.
Furthermore Chris, if you contend that a full-on crew would not even be necessary then that would help me out even more. I do plan to make my roof design as simple as possible. I foresee the only joints to be at the wall, ridge, and the panels themselves. Perhaps not even panel-to-panel joints since they can span so long. I guess it really all boils down to what it usually comes to: finding the right person for the job. Well I'm glad you guys are here to help. As always, any advice is welcome. Thanks
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 27 Sep 2013 08:02 PM |
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Posted By toddm on 27 Sep 2013 11:15 AM
Call your insurance agent or the OK Dept of Insurance, and talk to roofers, before you put steel roofing over steel SIPs. I have to confess that I have never seen a steel SIP and I don't know how roofing is applied. But, next door in Texas, insurance companies will ask you if your steel roof still sheds water after the hail storm. If the answer is yes, then you have cosmetic damage that they won't cover even if your roof looks like h*ll. Bottom line, you want decking under light gauge steel that doesn't give. Or buy alternative steel roofing, like stamped metal shakes, that can take a hit. The Texas Department of Insurance website lists hail resistant roofing products that qualify for insurance discounts. Asphalt shingles over any decking is fine in TX, too. Hail that knocks off grit and exposes the shingle itself is considered hail damage requiring a new roof. Again, your insurance rules will vary.
As you can see from these maps, there is not much comfort to be found from experience in the southeastern US. http://www.disastersafety.org/hail/protect-homes-from-damage/ In many areas of the plains states, you replace roofs on average every 7-10 years.
Steel roofing is applied to steel SIPs the same as any other roof , with screws |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 27 Sep 2013 08:08 PM |
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Posted By HVAC-Engineer on 27 Sep 2013 11:20 AM
Lbear, I'm like you in your design concepts. I'm designing around cathedral ceilings and would like a nice 24" overhang. The strength, simplicity, and performance are what attracts me toward steel SIPs. Being in Oklahoma, the high wind resistance is a HUGE factor. If you and Chris Kavala say OSB crews could easily transition into steel SIPs then it sounds like a pretty viable option.
Furthermore Chris, if you contend that a full-on crew would not even be necessary then that would help me out even more. I do plan to make my roof design as simple as possible. I foresee the only joints to be at the wall, ridge, and the panels themselves. Perhaps not even panel-to-panel joints since they can span so long. I guess it really all boils down to what it usually comes to: finding the right person for the job. Well I'm glad you guys are to help. As always, any advice is welcome. Thanks
HVAC-Engineer, yes I do contend that a full crew is not needed,just one lead man, the rest are grunts |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 28 Sep 2013 01:28 AM |
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Posted By toddm on 27 Sep 2013 11:15 AM
Call your insurance agent or the OK Dept of Insurance, and talk to roofers, before you put steel roofing over steel SIPs. I have to confess that I have never seen a steel SIP and I don't know how roofing is applied.
Steel SIP roofs with standing seam metal roofs are done all the time. A peel & stick underlayment membrane like Grace Ultra is applied over the steel SIP and then the finish roofing material is screwed down. Metal roofs last 50+ years. Asphalt shingle lasts 10-15 years here in the desert SW. |
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toddm
Veteran Member
Posts:1152
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| 28 Sep 2013 10:01 PM |
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Hey, if they were done all the time in OK then OP wouldn't need help finding a supplier. He needs two answers. How rigid is the foam, and I think we can assume that 26 gauge steel over 26 gauge steel isn't going to stand up to 2-inch hail. No. 2, if the roof looks like a golf ball but is still sound, will homeowner's insurance replace it? To repeat, there are many places in the plains states where 15 years without reroofing is an outstanding result. |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 28 Sep 2013 10:16 PM |
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Posted By toddm on 28 Sep 2013 10:01 PM
Hey, if they were done all the time in OK then OP wouldn't need help finding a supplier. He needs two answers. How rigid is the foam, and I think we can assume that 26 gauge steel over 26 gauge steel isn't going to stand up to 2-inch hail. No. 2, if the roof looks like a golf ball but is still sound, will homeowner's insurance replace it? To repeat, there are many places in the plains states where 15 years without reroofing is an outstanding result.
toddm, not sure what point you are trying to make?...we can assume that 26 ga. roofing is not going to hold up with any substrate when struck with 2" hail Steel Sips or OSB Sips are a much more solid substrate than 1/2" plywood over 24" oc trusses SIP's (any SIPs) are considered by insurance underwriters as " fortified construction" and for that reason get better insurance rates than conventional frame you cannot do this on a 1/2" plywood roof  This sounds like an insurance coverage issue ,not a building material issue
.Find a policy that will cover for cosmetic damage as well as funtional damage. |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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