Hello everybody, I have some good news for all you guys wanting to build your own S.I.P.'s. I have done some research on being able to build this type of panel system. I realize to be able to assemble the panels you need a method that is accurate, and repeatable. So I have designed and built a vacuum  system. This will require putting the glued panel in a vacuum bag. You apply vacuum to create pressure to force the sandwich panel with glue installed to become pressurized. This will also make the glue to spread the entire surface of the panel. I have built a bag to test my samples. Then I will take the samples to a machine shop that has a hydraulic press with a gauge. There is basically three test you need to perform to learn the strength of your home made panels. I plan to submit photos here to show you the test samples, and what I have learned from destroying the samples. I know I will learn the exact amount of p.s.i. required, the amount of glue, the cure rate of glue. And most importantly the actual strength of these panels. I will build my own in the county if the panels test out! This same vacuum pump system is used to build airplanes and large catamarans that sail in the ocean! So don't' let the naysayers tell you this not possible.

So, very interesting way to do this using vacuum. Force could be over 60 thousand pound pushing on a 4x8 panel. That is a lot of force pushing it together. I have no doubt this would work. Panels would be undersized once trimmed but add cathedral ceiling and you wont notice.

A question would be; so when you vacuum the air in the foam and osb would come outward reducing the glue penetration, but when the vacuum is removed the glue would be sucked in. So I am guessing you would apply vacuum for a short time (fifteen min?) then release.

Posted By newbostonconst on 22 Aug 2018 11:24 AM
So, very interesting way to do this using vacuum. Force could be over 60 thousand pound pushing on a 4x8 panel. That is a lot of force pushing it together. I have no doubt this would work. Panels would be undersized once trimmed but add cathedral ceiling and you wont notice.

A question would be; so when you vacuum the air in the foam and osb would come outward reducing the glue penetration, but when the vacuum is removed the glue would be sucked in. So I am guessing you would apply vacuum for a short time (fifteen min?) then release.

actually................ 45 minute average vacuum time at 8 psi , depending on temperature and glue

Posted By former marine on 22 Aug 2018 06:19 AM
Hello everybody, I have some all you guys wanting to build your own S.I.P.'s. I have done some research on being able to build this type of panel system. I realize to be able to assemble the panels you need a method that is accurate, and repeatable. So I have designed and built a vacuum  system. This will require putting the glued panel in a vacuum bag. You apply vacuum to create pressure to force the sandwich panel with glue installed to become pressurized. This will also make the glue to spread the entire surface of the panel. I have built a bag to test my samples. Then I will take the samples to a machine shop that has a hydraulic press with a gauge. There is basically three test you need to perform to learn the strength of your home made panels. I plan to submit photos here to show you the test samples, and what I have learned from destroying the samples. I know I will learn the exact amount of p.s.i. required, the amount of glue, the cure rate of glue. And most importantly the actual strength of these panels. I will build my own in the county if the panels test out! This same vacuum pump system is used to build airplanes and large catamarans that sail in the ocean! So don't' let the naysayers tell you this not possible.

yes its possible, but not practical nor cost effective

And you will have the same dilemma that all SIPs have. You won’t know for sure how long the glue will hold up over time. Once it fails your building structure fails.

There are two answers to your question. First the glue manufacture gives you temp. and time for curing of glue. You have to adhere to that time line. Second the vacuum I will apply will not be to the extent of thousands of lbs. I will dial in to get in the area of 5-8 lbs. per sq. inch. So thru my testing of my 2 ft. sq test sip's I will be able to dial the maximum strength obtainable. I will have to alter vacuum and the amount of glue to tune in my setup. At this time I have constructed my vacuum bag. I will begin assembling and testing my samples this week. 

Actually it is extremely predictable, and cost effective. I am not buying $100,000 worth of equipment from like Black Brothers. They make the equipment to build sip's. I have spent just under $600 to build my 5.5cfm vacuum pump, and vacuum bag. I will build wall panels 4 ft. by 10 ft. by 6 1/2" thick. I am experimenting with foam densities from 1-2 pcf. This is not rocket science. The key is to do your testing, keep good records. Use consistent methods that are repeatable. I calculate I will be able to build 8-10 panels a day. I am not doing this to make a living. I am doing and providing this information for you guys. And to build me a very strong, cost effective, energy efficient  home that I can live in!

Posted By former marine on 25 Aug 2018 07:41 PM
There are two answers to your question. First the glue manufacture gives you temp. and time for curing of glue. You have to adhere to that time line. Second the vacuum I will apply will not be to the extent of thousands of lbs. I will dial in to get in the area of 5-8 lbs. per sq. inch. So thru my testing of my 2 ft. sq test sip's I will be able to dial the maximum strength obtainable. I will have to alter vacuum and the amount of glue to tune in my setup. At this time I have constructed my vacuum bag. I will begin assembling and testing my samples this week. 

Actually it is a thousands of LBS 144 sq inches per sq ft. x 8 PSI x 40 square foot panel = 46,080 lbs

Posted By former marine on 25 Aug 2018 07:57 PM
Actually it is extremely predictable, and cost effective. I am not buying $100,000 worth of equipment from like Black Brothers. They make the equipment to build sip's. I have spent just under $600 to build my 5.5cfm vacuum pump, and vacuum bag. I will build wall panels 4 ft. by 10 ft. by 6 1/2" thick. I am experimenting with foam densities from 1-2 pcf. This is not rocket science. The key is to do your testing, keep good records. Use consistent methods that are repeatable. I calculate I will be able to build 8-10 panels a day. I am not doing this to make a living. I am doing and providing this information for you guys. And to build me a very strong, cost effective, energy efficient  home that I can live in!

Please post progress photos, for years , we have seen people on the GBT forum talking about building their own panels , but no one has EVER done it!

Chris Kavala you must be very concerned about someone like myself! At this point I am testing my vacuum bag. I have purchased the foam, the adhesive, the osb sheets. Folks when you have someone who is very concerned. It reveals one thing in particular. They realize the cat is about to be out of the bag! I am going to show anybody that wants to build there own home how to do this with under a $750 in equipment. Many people need to own there own home. The housing industry is a big rip-off. I know I been remodeling homes for over 30 years. This type of building system sip's is a method that anybody with a desire to learn, with sweat labor, and to learn thru testing, can own your own home. Chris you think this is that difficult? Then you ever seen where guys in there garage build airplanes that fly over 200 mph. And they are built with foam and a similar adhesive? What about catamarans, I have seen 42 ft. long cats in the Bahamas Islands crossing oceans. These boats are put together with glue, foam, and wood. I am not building an airplane, or a boat. I am building a home that has been proven to be very strong. I am not going to build many homes. I am going to build my home. And I am going to help others be able to do the same thing with a very minimal budget. My friends with inquiring minds, and critical thinking. Be encouraged God is in control. Learn to over come, fear, doubt, and disbelief. You will find out in this world, there are for more negative people, then there are positive minded people! The odd thing, is you would think there would be people wanting to help others to be able to build and own there own home. With the concept to help them build a safe home for there family to live in!

Posted By former marine on 25 Aug 2018 09:40 PM
Chris Kavala you must be very concerned about someone like myself! At this point I am testing my vacuum bag. I have purchased the foam, the adhesive, the osb sheets. Folks when you have someone who is very concerned. It reveals one thing in particular. They realize the cat is about to be out of the bag! I am going to show anybody that wants to build there own home how to do this with under a $750 in equipment. Many people need to own there own home. The housing industry is a big rip-off. I know I been remodeling homes for over 30 years. This type of building system sip's is a method that anybody with a desire to learn, with sweat labor, and to learn thru testing, can own your own home. Chris you think this is that difficult? Then you ever seen where guys in there garage build airplanes that fly over 200 mph. And they are built with foam and a similar adhesive? What about catamarans, I have seen 42 ft. long cats in the Bahamas Islands crossing oceans. These boats are put together with glue, foam, and wood. I am not building an airplane, or a boat. I am building a home that has been proven to be very strong. I am not going to build many homes. I am going to build my home. And I am going to help others be able to do the same thing with a very minimal budget. My friends with inquiring minds, and critical thinking. Be encouraged God is in control. Learn to over come, fear, doubt, and disbelief. You will find out in this world, there are for more negative people, then there are positive minded people! The odd thing, is you would think there would be people wanting to help others to be able to build and own there own home. With the concept to help them build a safe home for there family to live in!

Former marine
Thank you for your , service.
yeah , I'm really scared of a "Do it yourselfer" making panels in their garage , your right about it's not "rocket science"
to slap some glue , foam and OSB together
but that's not my market anyway , I don't endorse panels that are food for termites, carpenter ants, that mold /mildew/rot and more importantly no independent engineered testing
I'm interested in products that have long term dependability , a proven track record.
good luck with your endeavor and keep posting those pictures, they are worth a thousand words :)

My comment wasn't a question as much as a comment and a warning. I have seen lots of SIP panel fail after several years. They usually fail from seeing solar heating or moisture that causes delamination. So they may initially test fine but always eventually fail. It is just a matter of how long they will last and if that is long enough for you.

While I get calls and consult on SIP projects with issues, the only structural issues encounters have been with OSB. Often due to rotting, some from negligence ,
My personal installs date back as far as 24 years and have not yet seen any metal failures do to moisture or solar heating (Florida and Caribbean Installations)

I have in my possession an independent accelerated aging test , comparing the metal skinned SIP vs the OSB skinned SIP , 15 cycles , the OSB failed at the 3rd cycle , but the metal maintained 100% strength after 15 cycles, according to the technicians represents 300+ years life expectancy

Yeah my experience is from the legal law suit perspective and it has all been the OSB SIP panels and usually because of negligent contractors but not always. There are still some quality control issues and bad panels that make it into buildings. I would agree that the metal skinned SIP is a way better product in general but I still wouldn’t venture a guess or offer a guarantee how long they will actually last. I would think DIY SIP panels would be a very risky gamble. I don't have a problem with that as long as the building isn't sold to someone else and this isn't fully disclosed. Otherwise if it fails it would be a client we would happy help recover their expenses.

I hope you will post photos, test results and more details on how to DIY build SIPs. This might be a good solution for some of our farm structures. Yeah, one definitely should disclose all this in writing if selling to someone else.

So where are you and what can you report former marine?

yes .............crickets

New to the forum, not new to building construction. I’m interested in the findings of these test, but not sure I would attempt making panels without extensive, certified testing. I applaud “former marine’s” desire to come up with a DIY panel, but without the proper approvals (Florida Product Approval Number and/or Miami/Dade Approval), what is the point. Sure there are states that only require a “contractor” to own pickup truck, but it won’t fly in state that require a real license.

Again, I am interested in the findings because I have been proven wrong before, and have eaten my share of crow when I admitted that my thoughts were proven wrong.

Posted By SeaChaser on 14 Oct 2018 03:16 AM
New to the forum, not new to building construction. I’m interested in the findings of these test, but not sure I would attempt making panels without extensive, certified testing. I applaud “former marine’s” desire to come up with a DIY panel, but without the proper approvals (Florida Product Approval Number and/or Miami/Dade Approval), what is the point. Sure there are states that only require a “contractor” to own pickup truck, but it won’t fly in state that require a real license.

Again, I am interested in the findings because I have been proven wrong before, and have eaten my share of crow when I admitted that my thoughts were proven wrong.

SeaChaser,
contractor licensing is not so much an issue, but definitely product certification definitely is
unless you are building in "Podunk" USA, any credible building official will want to see some product testing/certifications.
and not rely on "I done it myself, trust me "

You can absolutely build high-end SIPs yourself. https://newatlas.com/room-to-move-tiny-house/41799/