When I was contracting I did about 150 conventional homes and 150 SIP homes , SIPs are no more difficult to build or permit than any other house the end benefits are to the homeowner

neither are concrete blocks without another layer on them that why brick/block houses have a cavity wall --if you consider stucco to be a waterproof layer then that applies directly to MGo or cement board same as on block .I think we have much wetter climate in uk ,so if allowed here it must be ok for you in US .there are lots of videos showing mgo +treated osb basements in US -and they use same tanking methods as concrete and block below ground structures --
bottom line is mgo sips are far more waterproof than stick and slab insulation -alot stronger and always better insulated and alot quicker to build --3-4 days from finished foundations and its built wind and watertight with a 4 man crew --plenty on videos showing it happening then the final thing is with the superior insulation and airtightness it will be the cheapest to heat or cool-- spray foam will need to be alot thicker to give R value as a sip panel house --and if sprayed after first fix and cabling not ducted there are some issues with cable overheating and degridation of plastic insulation over time ,if using basic type wiring cables,same goes for fitting cables into chanels in insulation ICF walls-bigger cabling should be used- or strap out and leave services gap before dry boards

Posted By scottishjohn on 26 Sep 2018 09:19 AM
neither are concrete blocks without another layer on them that why brick/block houses have a cavity wall --if you consider stucco to be a waterproof layer then that applies directly to MGo or cement board same as on block .I think we have much wetter climate in uk ,so if allowed here it must be ok for you in US .there are lots of videos showing mgo +treated osb basements in US -and they use same tanking methods as concrete and block below ground structures --
bottom line is mgo sips are far more waterproof than stick and slab insulation -alot stronger and always better insulated and alot quicker to build --3-4 days from finished foundations and its built wind and watertight with a 4 man crew --plenty on videos showing it happening then the final thing is with the superior insulation and airtightness it will be the cheapest to heat or cool-- spray foam will need to be alot thicker to give R value as a sip panel house --and if sprayed after first fix and cabling not ducted there are some issues with cable overheating and degridation of plastic insulation over time ,if using basic type wiring cables,same goes for fitting cables into chanels in insulation ICF walls-bigger cabling should be used- or strap out and leave services gap before dry boards

Stucco is ABSOLUTELY NOT WATERPROOF!
it is porous cement and works like a sieve.
and is the reason the current code requires not one , but two water barriers behind the lath when applied over framing ,
block is not waterproof either ,
the only way to waterproof a stucco surface is to coat with several coats of elastomeric paint
do you really want to rely on paint as your weather barrier?

Now im confused about this,as I live in a CBS constructed house with regular cement stucco over the CBS. I have drilled through to the interior several times for various projects, and there is no waterproof barrier, wire, styrofoam etc. There are hundreds of other housed built just like this in my neighborhood and I suspect millions in Florida alone. I have never had any issues with the walls and water intrusion and use normal brand name exterior paints.
Chris, I understand you sell or install steel sips, what do you suggest for exterior finishes on them?

Posted By FLMike on 26 Sep 2018 12:45 PM
Now im confused about this,as I live in a CBS constructed house with regular cement stucco over the CBS. I have drilled through to the interior several times for various projects, and there is no waterproof barrier, wire, styrofoam etc. There are hundreds of other housed built just like this in my neighborhood and I suspect millions in Florida alone. I have never had any issues with the walls and water intrusion and use normal brand name exterior paints.
Chris, I understand you sell or install steel sips, what do you suggest for exterior finishes on them?

FL mike,
yes you are correct and the reasons why many Florida homes have mold or mildew issues, the block allows water vapor to pass thru the walls
and in severe cases the like hurricane Charlie when the rain is coming sideways, the liquid water was pushed thru the stucco/block walls into the block core , where it slowly leached to the interior, with no electricity for weeks the interior became its own bio-sphere


To address what can you put over steel SIPs:
nothing!, the skins are waterproof

or you can put anything as an aesthetic cladding
there are no limits ............., stucco, synthetic stucco, stone ,brick, wood siding, vinyl siding, log siding , metal siding, Hardie siding,
my own personal home has a combination of: stucco over paper backed wire lath, Hardie-Lap siding and cultured stone ,
but I have many customers that have left the exterior white or colored galvalume skins serve as the permanent exterior , including a Little Caesar's free standing restaurant in Louisiana

You can go to this link to view projects with and without claddings

Photo Gallery

"nothing!, the skins are waterproof"
I had a feeling that would be your reply
I'm going to email you because I have alot of steel sip questions.

The individual panel skins are waterproof but joints and penetrations may not be. Proper flashing and layering of surfaces (to promote drainage away from an assembly) are still critical.

Posted By Torben on 27 Sep 2018 01:04 AM
The individual panel skins are waterproof but joints and penetrations may not be. Proper flashing and layering of surfaces (to promote drainage away from an assembly) are still critical.

true, if panels are to be left exposed seams must be sealed , panels have been tested in accordance with FM 4471, where they are placed under 6" of water head for 7 days with no leakage

cmkavala --how much cheaper are steel sips than osb --and what is outerskin thickness--are the skins plastisol coated or painted----I can find no one selling them in uk --only typical type commercial profiled panels for exterior cladding of portal steel frame "sheds"

Posted By scottishjohn on 27 Sep 2018 08:26 AM
cmkavala --how much cheaper are steel sips than osb --and what is outerskin thickness--are the skins plastisol coated or painted----I can find no one selling them in uk --only typical type commercial profiled panels for exterior cladding of portal steel frame "sheds"

scottisjoun,
I Earlier on in my career I built with OSB and found too many issues with weight, water and moisture, once I did my first SSIP house , I stuck with it , the initial cost is about the same, but the benefits for SSIPs go beyond that
*skins are the moisture barrier,
* no cranes needed to set
*no food value for carpenter ants or termites
* no OSB off gassing
*underside of roof panels create a finished white soffit or porch roof

any manufacturer that makes cold storage panels are making metal panels, but you would need to verify that their panels are structural as metal panels are the most widely produce in the world , but take caution some are not structural
I am not familiar with the UK companies , but I would search your area for cold storage manufacturers first , then verify they are structural as well.
we also ship worldwide :)

I expect transport to uk port then up to scotland would be prohibitive--was hoping you would say you had a uk agent--just strange no one markets them here if they comply with uk codes , are they T+ or just edge to edge fitting how much lighter than osb panel --both me and brother are about start a build ,but not young -anymore 72 +67 and with 50 years of manual motortrade wear +tear on the body .so weight is a concern

Posted By scottishjohn on 27 Sep 2018 12:45 PM
I expect transport to uk port then up to scotland would be prohibitive--was hoping you would say you had a uk agent--just strange no one markets them here if they comply with uk codes , are they T+ or just edge to edge fitting how much lighter than osb panel --both me and brother are about start a build ,but not young -anymore 72 +67 and with 50 years of manual motortrade wear +tear on the body .so weight is a concern

a 6" panel weighs 2.2 lbs. per square foot , I can easily maneuver a 10 ft panel myself
I am 66 and just recently purchased a trailer frame to build a tiny house on wheels , I plan on doing everything by myself
I plan on posting progress photos on GBT forum, but probably won't start until December when weather is cooler

Hi Mike, please contact Innova Eco Building System in Miami, we can provide you with technical responses to all of your questions. The InnovaPanel product, an MGO SIPO has been approved by the State of Florida and Miami dade County since 2015. We have many completed homes in Florida, Caribbean and throughout South America. Innova uses only Florida approved MGO board that has been tested, third party certified and is under Florida's Product approval procedure. There are currently two different manufacturers of MGO Boards approved for Florida. We recommend "STucco Flex" for the exterior finish on our homes that desire a stucco finish. You can also use vinyl, wood or cement board siding, stone veneer or other. The Innova MGO SIP panel is unlike any other SIP on the market. Our panels are load bearing, more than 7000 pounds of axial loading per linear foot.The nail pullout on our HIP panels is a minimum of 900 psi, more than double the pullout strength of OSB or plywood. We have had 36 of our homes involved in 3 different documented natural disasters.Cat 5 Hurricane with 200 mph wind burst on St. Croix Island, ground zero in the Florida keys with CAT 4 hurricane Irma and an EF 2 Tornado in South Carolina, none of our homes received any structural damage or water intrusion into their homes. Their neighbors were not as lucky. Our product is impact rated, tested and NOA approved for the Coastal Impact Zone by Miami Dade County for +200 mph hurricane force winds. We will be more than happy to provide technical responses to the remainder of your questions via email. We look forward to speaking to you soon.

Hi Mike, please contact Innova Eco Building System in Miami, we can provide you with technical responses to all of your questions. The InnovaPanel product, an MGO SIPO has been approved by the State of Florida and Miami dade County since 2015. We have many completed homes in Florida, Caribbean and throughout South America. Innova uses only Florida approved MGO board that has been tested, third party certified and is under Florida's Product approval procedure. There are currently two different manufacturers of MGO Boards approved for Florida. We recommend "STucco Flex" for the exterior finish on our homes that desire a stucco finish. You can also use vinyl, wood or cement board siding, stone veneer or other. The Innova MGO SIP panel is unlike any other SIP on the market. Our panels are load bearing, more than 7000 pounds of axial loading per linear foot.The nail pullout on our HIP panels is a minimum of 900 psi, more than double the pullout strength of OSB or plywood. We have had 36 of our homes involved in 3 different documented natural disasters.Cat 5 Hurricane with 200 mph wind burst on St. Croix Island, ground zero in the Florida keys with CAT 4 hurricane Irma and an EF 2 Tornado in South Carolina, none of our homes received any structural damage or water intrusion into their homes. Their neighbors were not as lucky. Our product is impact rated, tested and NOA approved for the Coastal Impact Zone by Miami Dade County for +200 mph hurricane force winds. We will be more than happy to provide technical responses to the remainder of your questions via email. We look forward to speaking to you soon.

Hi Mike, since you are located in Florida, I would start by only using Florida Product Approved and Dade County Product approved products. For the SIP system, you can replace much of the wood with trex plastic lumber. You can also use an MGO floorplate which is approved with some SIP manufacturers. For plumbing installations, SIPS should be treated like a block wall. Most all plumbing will be installed in the interior framed partitions. For plumbing on exterior walls, most will be behind cabinets, for exposed walls you would fur them out like you would with block. The exterior plumbing, hose bibs is run exposed up the outside face of the house. The ac ductwork requires a little planning and the installation will vary with the design of the home. We generally frame the hallways and bath areas and run the duct down the hallway sidewall venting the rooms. Kitchen and dinning is sometimes sidewall vented from above the bath ceiling depending on layouts. Framed soffits can also be used. The goal is to keep the duct inside the conditioned space, not up in an attic so when the duct leaks, it is leaking into the conditioned space. For mounting electrical boxes, you use remodeling boxes which have ears on them for attaching to the face of the panel. If you send me your email I will send you an electrical guide which will shown this in more detail. All electrical should be coordinated with the SIP manufacturer but it is not an issue to add outlets and electrical later on with a SIP. I can you send you info on this as well. For ceiling fans, we use sidewall wall mounted boxes and we coordinate the locations with the splines in the timber roof panels. Our company has a product approved HZHV MGO roof panel. This roof panel is approved with a liquid applied roof system by Sherwin Williams (see forum on MGO Roof panels) for more information. For other roof systems we offer plywood or osb top skin with an MGO bottom skin. Our most common exterior finish is Stucco Flex. This is an amazing product that works well with MGO, does not crack and adds impact resistance. You can also use any common siding product on an MGO SIP. If you want vinyl siding, you seal the panel with Luxon concrete masonry sealer and then install the siding, no tyvek is required. In the Florida keys and other areas requiring elevated slabs, we use our approved MGO SIP floor panels. The panels provide a good R Value and are less than an elevated concrete slab. Most all other areas in florida are slabs on grade construction. If you use a SIP floor panel on a retaining wall with a crawl space, you will need to ensure you have at least 24" crawlspace and that the soil under the house is clean and drainable. The crawlspace ground should be several inches higher than the grade outside the crawlspace to prevent drainage under the house which could cause future moisture issues and other under the home. Please feel free to contact me with any additional questions about constructing with MGO SIPS.

Thanks a lot for sharing with us

Hi Florida Mike, Give us a call if you are still interested in building with MGO SIP in Orlando. We use composite lumber all the time with our system.Our SIPs are NOA approved for the high velocity coastal wind zones and Florida Product approved for all other areas. Depending on the design, we can show you how to lay out the ductwork for the ac system. As with all SIP houses in Florida regardless of the SIP skin, we recommend using a humidistat in lieu of a thermostat. We provide a complete electrical installation guide that will specify the type of receptacle boxes that we use for easy mounting with SIP. Ceiling fans use a side mount box and we coordinate the location with a roof spline which are much stronger than typical fan mounting in a conventional home. The MGO that we use for our system has over 350 psi nail pullout which is the same or more as most plywood and OSB sheets. Our axial loading is over 28,000 pound compressive load per panel, that is more than 7500 pounds a linear foot, the strongest load bearing SIP panel available on the market by far. We have 5 patents protecting our technology. We are the only manufacture that can produce 24' long MGO SIP panels without any thermal breaks. All other manufactures have to frame the panel (creates a hinge point of weakness) or can only produce 10' long MGO panels. Do not accept substitutes, no other MGO manufacture can produce panels like the InnovaPanel.There is a big difference between the InnovaPanel and the MGO SIPs that others are producing! We will be happy to answer all of your question in detail, just give us a call. We are located in Miami, Innova Eco Building System. We have installers working the Orlando area.

Did you build your SIP home yet?