New to this forum - first post. We have a 17 year old timberframe home with SIPs that we purchased four years ago. Paying a lot of attention to snow on the roof this year due to ice dams (which I understand I really shouldn't have). There is one significant section of the roof with notable heat loss (melting) compared to the rest so I had a blower test done as a start to see what's going on. Looking at the infrared, there is heat loss throughout the roof and walls, particularly along the junctions of the posts and beams inside and in wall areas along what are probably seams. All of this makes me think the panels are not sealed properly and I'm in big trouble. The only attic access is to the area above the garage that is not SIP. The part of the house where the roof melting is occurring does have a drop ceiling and some cavity behind the walls so I'm going to have a contractor open that up and see what's going on in there. However after reading a bit here and elsewhere I think I need to get a SIP expert to assess the whole thing to see just how bad it is. From this forum I see recommendations for a structural engineer. Will any structural engineer do or do I need someone with SIP/timberframe expertise? How do I find a good one and what should I expect. I'm located in MN.

JoMac, based on what you have described, in my opinion, you are heading in the wright direction. The infrared scan is where to start. Opening up any concealed areas that appear to have the most heat loss would be the next item to explore. You stated that there are dropped ceilings in the ares of the heat loss. Are they above a bathroom or kitchen where there could possibly be a vent that is either leaking or is not vented to the outside? As far as the the other areas that are showing heat loss, there could be a number reasons for this to occur. What could be helpful is if you can provide the pics from the heat loss analysis. We would also need regular pictures of the house that duplicate the areas the heat loss images were taken. This would allow us to have a better understanding of the layout. Any other items that you have available like drawings, shop drawings, the thickness of the wall & roof panels, the composition of the panels used in each area, and the specifications or type of HVAC systems in the house would also be helpful. At this point I believe that it would be a little premature to get an engineer involved. Looking forward to hearing back from you. Kevin Casey

I will start by posting a couple pics of the part of the roof where it melts completely along with the interior where that roof section is - the place the contractor is opening up to take a look. It's the place at the top of the roof that's melting. The bottom is where I had the ice dams removed. I have all the infrared and regular photos but need to see if I can extract them from the PDF report as that appears to be too large to attach here. I have no plans for the house though I can see a label on the SIPs from the attic over the garage. The roof of the garage is not SIPs but I can see the label on the wall to the interior of the house.

Well I can't seem to get the infrared photos out of the report in a small enough file size to attach here. I could send it to someone I guess if that's allowed. When these guys were here for the blower door they talked about caulking along the posts and beams to reduce the heat loss. Is there any reason that shouldn’t be done? Could it make something worse? These people don’t know much about SIPs so wanted to check.

JoMac, you can send the file to me at [email protected] Do you have any of the other information that I requested that could be helpful? At this point I would not suggest caulking around the beams. Thanks, Kevin Casey

Thanks - I will send you some things. The area with the melt down is not over a kitchen or bath. Contractor will be there tomorrow so I will know more about that area. I don't know the thickness of the walls or ceiling but will send you a photo of the SIP label if that says anything useful. I'm not at this house full-time so can't go look at anything right now. The only drawing/plan I have is from when I had the roof replaced which will at least give you an idea of the roof lines. I have a Bryant furnace with an air exchanger. Can't tell you any more about than that. I will advise them not to rush into caulking anything.

JoMac, what you have sent is very help full. This allows us to see what is happening. After a quick review of the pic's it brings up a question. Do the main bent timbers (Rafters) extend outside the insulated envelope? Are they exposed on the outside? I will take some time to review what you have provided so for and get back to you with our thoughts. Thanks, Kevin Casey

In examining an exterior photo I think they do. There are some extensions under the soffits that go in the opposite direction of the interior beams that are maybe cosmetic but when I zoom in on a photo of the living room part of the house I think I can see the beams under the overhang.

JoMac, This would make sense based on the infrared pictures that you provided. With the beams extending outside the insulated envelope I would have to assume that the tongue and groove also is continuous and extends out side. In my opinion there is very little that you can do to correct this issue. You can apply caulking to the exterior around the beams and where the exterior cladding meets the T&G. That is the best you can do. In my opinion this detail is the downfall of a lot of timber frame projects. I have always encouraged designers and engineers to stop the beams and the T&G at the inside skin of the wall SIP's to prevent this from occurring. Over the years I have seen countless projects with this problem. Please let us know what your contractors find when they gain access to the dropped ceiling areas where the snow is melting off. Have A Great Day! Kevin Casey

Here's an update from the look see inside the attic cavity where the big melt down happens. That part of the roof is not SIPs. It is also not sufficiently insulated or ventilated. So they are going to decide how to remedy that. The interior areas with the heat loss along the posts and beams - that hot air is rising up into that cavity. So they are doing some caulking of that from the interior. Good news is that what they can see of the adjacent SIPs from this attic space is that all look to be properly sealed, thankfully. So it seems that the other areas of heat loss along the beams may be due to the fact the beams extend to the exterior. I know those were caulked on the outside by the contractor who repaired/caulked/stained the exterior. So I'm cautiously optimistic that I don't have a major SIP problem and that there is opportunity for considerable improvement of the roof heat loss that is causing the ice dams. Thank you very much for reviewing my info and providing guidance - much appreciated.

And here's another update from a SIPA registered master builder who looked at the infrared photos - says my SIPs are not sealed and my builder did a poor job. Continuing to get additional opinions. I would think if my SIPs were in fact not sealed there would be some additional evidence of problems after 17 years but maybe not.

Nah, you'd be surprised how long some half-ass jobs last before unleashing the full horror of their problems upon you.

Well I've gotten all kinds of opinions. The original problem that led me to this forum was ice dams that I now know had nothing to do with the SIPs as they're caused by massive heat loss in an inadequately insulated part of the house that doesn't have a SIP roof. So that will be fixed by the end of next week and I'm not inclined at this point to tear the exterior of my house off to address a problem that I have no symptoms of other than infrared photos from a blower door test. I unfortunately got a new roof last year before this issue surfaced and no structural deterioration was detected and no moisture or rot - perhaps it's not visible. I had a 4x7 wood chimney enclosure taken off that exposed the roof infrastructure including SIPs prior to installation of a new metal chimney - no moisture, rot or structural degradation was noted. The people looking at the SIPs from inside when they opened the cavity under the non-SIP roof detected no moisture or rot but they did note that the adjacent SIPs were sealed.

So my question now is - what symptoms should I continue to watch for that would indicate further deterioration from inadequately sealed SIPs?

Well I've gotten all kinds of opinions. The original problem that led me to this forum was ice dams that I now know had nothing to do with the SIPs as they're caused by massive heat loss in an inadequately insulated part of the house that doesn't have a SIP roof. So that will be fixed by the end of next week and I'm not inclined at this point to tear the exterior of my house off to address a problem that I have no symptoms of other than infrared photos from a blower door test. I unfortunately got a new roof last year before this issue surfaced and no structural deterioration was detected and no moisture or rot - perhaps it's not visible. I had a 4x7 wood chimney enclosure taken off that exposed the roof infrastructure including SIPs prior to installation of a new metal chimney - no moisture, rot or structural degradation was noted. The people looking at the SIPs from inside when they opened the cavity under the non-SIP roof detected no moisture or rot but they did note that the adjacent SIPs were sealed.

So my question now is - what symptoms should I continue to watch for that would indicate further deterioration from inadequately sealed SIPs?

JoMac, Thanks for the updates, I am glad to hear that you have identified the problem areas and can address them effectively. In my review of the information that you provided I never mentioned that I felt that there was a problem with the SIP's being sealed properly, just about the assembly method. Based on the information you provided, It appears that the SIP's are installed properly and performing as intended. If you continue to monitor the building as you have and address any concerns as they become noticeable, you should be in good shape. Have A Great Day! Kevin Casey

Kevin - it was the SIPA registered master builders who said the SIPs weren't sealed properly. I do think however that the gloom and doom assessment was based on seeing the meltdown photos and thinking that was a SIP roof. Once I let him know that was a non-SIP insulation problem he seemed less concerned. The other SIPA builder also thought it wasn't sealed properly but again that opinion may have been related more to the non-SIP problem area. In any case I do want to know what to watch for in case there is a problem that could get worse in my lifetime and/or as long as I own this home which could be another 10-15 years.