engineer, this is where the data sort of falls apart.  I can't say for certain what each final diagnosis was that resulted in a new outdoor unit.  I can say though that when he pitched the Maytag product originally, he said "it was a no questions asked replacement warranty".  This brings us to the second replacememt, where he was raising his voice at me in my own front yard.  I replied with "you sold this to me as having a no questions asked warranty.  You seem to be asking me a lot of questions, and I don't appreciate being yelled at.  It seems since that day, this guy turns to replacing the unit without a lot of interest in reverse engineering any pinpointed fault.
Last year when they replaced it, they told me my contactor was totally fried.  I sure wish I viewed it.  I am an electronics journeyman myself and wish I knew a bit  more about this thing.

I have a question about bubbles or air in the little viewing window in the line.  I have had a second opinion on this tell me that it should never have bubbles in it.  The original installer says it can.  What is the actual answer to this??  Mine starts totally empty, then some spray type activity starts, then suddenly the entire window is like milk.  I guess it has so many micro bubbles in it, it appears milky.  Then it gradually transitions to perfectly clear fluid.  At this point it is still noisy.

Yes, specifically inside the unit I can't really help.  I can say that I did press my head to various areas on the outside of it.  All I can say is it originates from the bottom of the heat pump.  I press my hand on the masonry chimney near it and I can feel the vibrating.  I am going to post a video of the unit  starting up on a popular video web page soon.

post a link when you do

I have posted a video of the units operation onto the web.  Specifically filming the view window upon startup house heat cycle.  You will also note the overall location of the unit.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW-rgWgX-dM

Hope this is ok to do.

If anything the system sounds and looks over charged, the noise unless my computer speakers are shot . Im curious what part failures beside the contactor do you know of?

I'm sorry, I don't have many details other than a new thermostat once, a fried contactor once, and various checks of particular things such as dip switches, recharges, and head scratching.  I appreciate all the insight here, and will continue with the pad.   I'm going to have to involve this guy again and I'll go from there.  I just don't want Maytag to wash their hands of me.  They have been very good to date.

 

In defence of Maytag, please let me say this:

Maytag has honored a new heat pump unit for me under warranty 4 times in 5 yrs.  When I expressed my concern that not one year in my initial 5yr replacement warranty has been sucessful.  They responded with the new heat pumps 12 yr warranty, beginning on my original install date.  So now, 5 yrs in, I have a 1 yr old heat pump with 6-7yrs remaining on its 12 yr replacement warranty.  This I found very impressive.

Thanks to all for your assistance.

Thanks Eric, I'll stop by HD tomorrow after work and see what they've  got.

I viewed the video - noise is excessive. I wish I knew more about what to conclude from the bursts of bubbles in the sight glass.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I saw the outdoor fan blade turning very very slowly - could this unit have a bad outdoor fan motor or be going into defrost mode too often or being stuck in defrost mode?

Normal operation should be quieter and with lots and lots of air - several thousand CFM blasting up out of the top of the unit.

As for the multiple replacements I'm betting contractor is clueless or has boarded a Maytag gravy train on which he gets x hours labor reimbursement to just replace the unit regardless of cause of failure.

I also bet this is a straight simple noise problem, not a vibration issue. You can mess around with vibration isolation pads etc, but the noise I heard in the video isn't going to go away with installation of pads.

With the bubbles, it may be normal for a heat pump to periodically, on start up, to show bubbles like that.

The milky color raises some questions for me. What type of refrigerant was in the first system? Is there any chance that the wrong oil has been used in the system, to where oil has been mixed? If so, it can/will cause a milky color to the refrigerant. It also may be an oil return problem. The milky color, though, really seems to point my opinion towards a problem with refrigerant type, oil type, or refrigerant flow.

engineer, I'll take your bet that it is "simple noise problem" ;-)


The slow fan issue shown in the video is called aliasing. The fan most likely is rotating normally, but the way the video is recorded causes the affect of making it appear to rotate slower.  The video is made up of typically 30 frames per second.  Depending on where the fan blades are at each of these separate frames, the end results can appear to rotate slow or even backwards when viewed on a monitor.

Noise levels from a video can be deceiving as well.  Depending on how close the camera is to the noise source it can make something seems loader then it really is, not to mention the volume level on whatever you play the video back on.

A key point that mydigitalself made, he state that it seemed loader inside the house.  I still believe that the noise he is getting is being communicated through the concrete pad that buts up to the house and chimney as he pointed out.  There may still be something wrong with his unit, but to me, it didn’t sound all that different from other units I’ve heard especially at the last part of the video when he back away from the unit.

Regards,

This forum is really good.  My first time ever posting anything.  Very impressed with your interest.

The fan is moving very fast, moving a lot of air upward.

In fact, now that you focus on the indoor noise relativity, I should say that it is a different type of noise.  It is a low freq only deep buzz.  While alongside the unit, the deep noise presents itself with much more pitchy rattle.  I suppose the deep sound is still there but is suppressed in our heads by the overall noise.  Yes the unit is more quiet when you step away but is far more noisy when in the summer.

I did pick up a nice rubber mat from HD tonight and cut it into squares at its natural score lines.  This left me with 9 squares approx 10"x10".  When my wife and I tried to "tilt" the unit to push them under each corner, I could not even budge the unit.  My thoughts are that it is frozen to the concrete pad.  If not, I am far weaker than I thought.  Inside the unit is a nice glossy "whitish" ice blob around the interior canister.  There is a nice melted separation from this center portion and the outer coils.  So some sort of defrost is working for the coils.  I tried pouring some warm tap water under the unit.(Not into or on any piping or mechanical components. )  I thought this may make it a bit more loose but did nothing.

I do have to get these pads in while its frozen to properly prove the theory.  If I wait until its thawed, the test will then have two variables in it.  So I will continue attempting to get the pads in.  I do respect that idea.  The rubber is a medium softness, with 1" holes in the pattern.  I feel it would offer itself pretty effectively as a shock mount, but I'll let you know soon.

 

Very much appreciate the help guys, thanks.

Nice to know a name for the apparent but false appearance of slowly turning fan blade - glad that theory is eliminated.

I'm aware that perceived noise on a video or audio recording is going to depend highly on mic gain and placement. I was less impressed by the volume and more concerned with the 'harshness' of the sound. My experience is that modern SEER 13+ air source outdoor units have fairly quiet scroll compressors and have to move so much air to be 13 SEER that fan motor noise, fan blade noise and air movement noise overwhelm compressor noise. In this recording harsh compressor noise seemed dominant.

As for stuffing pads under unit know that the refrigerant piping may cause the unit to be hard to move - forcing the issue may damage the refrigerant lines. I'm not saying don't do it, just excercise caution. Electrically disconnecting the unit during this effort would be prudent as well.

Spoken wisely.  In your experience, how hard should it be to raise one side 1".
Do they freeze to the ground?

i doubt there is anything wrong with the units. check your lineset in the house. if the lines are in contact with joists it can transmit noise.
the lines should be isolated. just a guess.

Good catch. Rubbing on hard materials may ultimately damage lineset as well.

Lineset is pair of copper refrigerant tubes, one thick and insulated, other thin and bare, conveying refrigerant between indoor and outdoor units.

This from a GSHP maker's installation guide

NOTICE! Failure to remove shipping brackets from spring-mounted compressors will cause excessive noise, and could cause component failure due to added vibration.

Nahhh! The installer wouldn't have forgotton to do this 4 times in a row!!! Would he?

Wouldn't that be somethin'!  I'm unable to see much other than the top of the canister in the center of the unit.  As for the spring mounts, if any, they would be covered in the ice. 

Remember, this thing was totally quiet for months upon spring, summer and most fall.  I've still got to try for the rubber mat, just haven't had time yet. 

Today I called the installer, and informed them of the excessive noise for the 5th year straight.  They should be coming here in the next day or so.  This should be good.  I'll try to pay attention to what they look at and say....

When the original heat pump model was replaced with Maytags latest last year.  I took note of the fitting size on it.  I questioned the original line being adapted into this larger fitting at the unit.  He assured me it wouldn't make any difference.  Can anybody comment on this?  Also, how much air is normal in the line upon start?  If the colored "eye" in the viewing window is very dark, is that ok?

Just trying to get some good answers prior to this guy arriving possibly tomorrow.

The fitting size change won't make any difference. He's right.

The bubbles you see are not air, or at least the better not be. It's just vapor refrigerant.

As far as shipping bolts on a compressor unit like that, they don't have them. The compressor is such a pain to access, they wouldn't put that kind of thing on there.