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joe.ami
 Veteran Member
 Posts:4377

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| 14 Jan 2009 08:15 PM |
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Expansion valves can cause harmonics in a variety of ranges that sound like sympathetic vibrations, could also explain repeated compressor damage if not changed with the condensers. That you didn't meet the manufacturer's rep and your portrayal of the contractor as marginally courteous at best, sounds unfortunate. I would contact manufacturer for referral to new contractor and if you haven't yet, try HVAC talk for a bigger pool of air source mechanics, you are not likely the first or only one with this problem. Good Luck, Joe |
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Joe Hardin www.amicontracting.com We Dig Comfort! www.doityourselfgeothermal.com Dig Your Own Comfort! |
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mydigitalself
 New Member
 Posts:22
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| 15 Jan 2009 09:34 PM |
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Well, I have notified the installer of yet another winter of noise and now it is two days later and he hasn't showed or contacted me with a concern.
I have just lifted the corners and installed the 1/2" recycled tire rubber mats under the unit. The unit was bonded to the concrete patio and thus I heard the ice cracking while I lifted it gingerly.
The heat pump sounds pretty much the same, perhaps a bit quiter while you are at it. Inside the house you cannot hear a thing!
Thank you all for the thoughts and in this is hopefully the end of this.
Thanks,
Richard B. |
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Eric D
 Basic Member
 Posts:104
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| 15 Jan 2009 11:16 PM |
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Richard,
Thanks for posting your follow on the use of the rubber pad. Glad to hear that corrected the noise into your home.
Regards, |
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| Eric D<br>Southern Michigan |
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craigb93
 New Member
 Posts:47
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| 16 Jan 2009 01:35 PM |
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Posted By mydigitalself on 01/13/2009 10:21 PM If the colored "eye" in the viewing window is very dark, is that ok?
One model of BullsEye type of sight glass has a moisture indicator in the center. Green is the indication for a dry, moisture free system. If yours is dark and that is the type / model of indicator you have, the system needs to have a liquid line dryer added. The multiple changeouts have resulted in system contamination. http://www.asercom.org/files/ASERCOM_Statement_FID_FilterDryer_New_PressQuality.pdf http://www.daytonrefrigeration.com/servlet/the-Sight-Glass-Moisture-Indicator/Categories Typical dryer http://www.drillspot.com/products/391740/Parker_CuLLD16-3S_Liquid_Line_Filter_Drier Expect more equipment failures until you get the whole system cleaned up well. Dick Beacham
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mydigitalself
 New Member
 Posts:22
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| 16 Jan 2009 11:22 PM |
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Well, they showed up today while I was at work. I did get to talk to them though. I told them of the rubber mats affecting the vibration in the home greatly and they said "yeah it seems to be pretty good from what we see, but we'll give some things a good check". When I got home tonight, the noise in the house was back and the mats are still in place. I'm thinking the unit has bonded itself to my concrete patio with ice again. They are going to see if a "heater" is something that is an option.
Interesting about the sight glass. Earlier today, I did ask them specifically about the sight color and they said it should be dark purple like it is. I will double check the type of sight and research as necessary.
The outcome of this could explain the failures. At least two of my earlier replaced heat pumps were failing somethin' fierce.
Thanks, Ill get back when I have more news.
Richard |
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mydigitalself
 New Member
 Posts:22
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| 16 Jan 2009 11:39 PM |
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My sight is an Emerson (Alco Controls) HMI tricolor indicator. It is indicating well into "dry" according to the Emerson HMI white paper that I just viewed.
I'll post with the contractors next action...
Richard |
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engineer
 Veteran Member
 Posts:2749
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| 17 Jan 2009 08:38 AM |
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Multiple defrost cycles iced the unit to the mat and pad?
Rather than heating the great outdoors is there any way to channel defrost water further away from unit? |
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Curt Kinder <br><br>
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
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mydigitalself
 New Member
 Posts:22
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| 17 Jan 2009 12:23 PM |
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I've been pondering something of that nature all night. I've come to the conclusion that the trickle of escaping water would have to remain liquid. All around the heat pump on the down hill side of it(the patio has some fall) is a 3'4" thick smooth ice flow. This would have to have been carried into a floor drain while it is liquid. Could be possible, with a custom built tray and lifting the unit up perhaps a few inches to allow fall to my nearest perimeter drain cleanout. I'm wondering if I would have to "heat" this custom tray all the way to the cleanout drain.
Any innovative ideas will be considered
Richard |
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craigb93
 New Member
 Posts:47
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| 17 Jan 2009 04:04 PM |
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If you have a sheet of heavy, >~5/8" plywood you might try various placements between the unit and the chimney as a sound baffle. (Ping-pong table?) Don't let it touch either one. Just hold it in place while another person listens from inside & communicates via cellphone, etc. IF you find a sweet spot then add suitable supports a la street barricade.
Also, what is the elevation difference between the condensing unit and the evaporator coil? If they are on different floors you could be getting some refrigerant drain back on shutdown that takes a somewhat extended time for the sight glass to clear at startup. Another guess is that the reversing valve may be designed to softly seat and thus take extra time to clear. Both could be normal. |
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mydigitalself
 New Member
 Posts:22
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| 17 Jan 2009 08:02 PM |
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I'm convinced the noise is coming from the concrete so the plywood won't do much in this case. The entire install is on the same level, except the lineset. The lineset rises to the overhead joists and drops down to each unit.
I'm still tossing around some tray sort of ideas. Maybe have a stainless tray fab'd with enough fall that ice would likely not build up. I could easily wrap the tray drain line with standard water line heating wrap. Just have a feeling it would be more than should have been required and add to the electric $.
Contractor said they were going to look into something, I'm not sure. It is making quite a bit of noise again. Unacceptable level. Lots of ice on the ground around it. Actually dangerous to approach if you didn't know it was there. If the defrost water was moving faster, I have to think it would be a lot better. I think some ice damming would still occur though. Thus stopping the drainage and right back here again.
My father recommended hanging the heat pump from the joists overhead with chain and springs.?? Any thoughts on this?? |
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Eric D
 Basic Member
 Posts:104
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| 17 Jan 2009 09:37 PM |
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Simple solution would be to raise the unit 3 to 4 inches off the slab with blocks at three points or four if needed. On the top of the blocks use your rubber mats to support the unit. Extra care needs to be given to the line set not to bend or damage it. Raising the unit will allow the water to run off and not freeze the unit to the slab. It won't do much for keeping the slab from getting slippery, but should stop the noise transfer. |
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| Eric D<br>Southern Michigan |
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mydigitalself
 New Member
 Posts:22
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| 18 Jan 2009 12:30 AM |
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Since the installer is around again, I'll ask them to give me a hand lifting the thing onto pads that way they can care for the lines etc.
I'm going to go with the blocks and pads for now. W'll see how that does. |
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