Is this plumbed backwards?
Last Post 20 Aug 2010 12:26 AM by ilgeo. 34 Replies.
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decafdrinkerUser is Offline
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17 Aug 2010 11:42 AM
Ok, a few answers...

The PEX is labeled "RAUGEO 1 inch PEXa".
At the manifold, the 1 inch pipes (grey) each connect to little white pex stubs for connection to the manifold. The stub brass fittings are labeled 3/4".

Re design points, the only thing temperature related on the heating/cooling load calc sheet (I think that's what it is) says indoor dry-bulb 70, outdoor dry bulb -5. Difference: 75 F. Heatloss calculated at 37000 btu.
joe.amiUser is Offline
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17 Aug 2010 10:57 PM
4 ton heat pump with 3 ton load. Your auxiliary balance point should be near 0.
Who designed this?
j
Joe Hardin
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decafdrinkerUser is Offline
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18 Aug 2010 08:36 PM
Hey, Joe,

What do you mean??

Also, I think my desuperheater is backwards...

Should DSH OUT go to the TOP of the water heater or the bottom?
Should DSH IN connect to the TOP of the water heater or the bottom?

Or doesn't it really matter?

I know the DSH pipe inside the unit has a temperature sensor/shut-off to the circulation motor, which I assume turns the motor *off* when the pipe (and water heater) get to a certain temperature, but what is that cut-off temperature?

Should the sensor be on the pipe that is bringing "cold" water from the water heater, or on the pipe that is sending hot water from the exchanger to the water tank?  (all inside the case, mind you).

I'm asking because I'm not sure my dsh is working correctly....so many problems.
joe.amiUser is Offline
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18 Aug 2010 11:05 PM
Ipicked something in North PA (Scranton) and on design software, balance point was indicated as N/A. This means a 4 ton could probably keep up without an aux. heater.
That being said if you had high aux use last year, you shouldn't have and I am concerned about the training/experience of your installer.
J
Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort!
decafdrinkerUser is Offline
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19 Aug 2010 08:00 AM
I know there were days that the aux cycled on and off continuously.
Also, the installer hadn't hooked up the aux heat properly in the first place, so we had about a week of barely maintaining 63 F in the house until he came out and rewired it.

Jan and Feb of 09 were the coldest, with just over 1000 hdd each here. The electric bill for each of those was $230. I know we have about $100 non-heating related, so I figured $130 for heat per month was a pretty good deal...now it seems like it could have been better :-(
My latest cooling bill for 450 cooling degree days was $196, or $96 for the cooling part.

My installer hasn't returned any of my phone calls or emails for a month, even though there is a broken damper motor, knocking/air in the loops, and the manifold is plumbed backwards. I'm screwed. I don't know how to get this all fixed.
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19 Aug 2010 09:27 AM
Your installer was incompetant. You need to find a reliable company to get this working correctly. That 4 ton unit (based on heat load you provided) doesn't require aux. untill temps are below ~-8*.
You might try Climatemaster's website for a dealer in your area, as well as IGSHPA.
Refresh my memory on what they did for ground loops.
Joe
Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
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decafdrinkerUser is Offline
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19 Aug 2010 11:37 AM
2 boreholes, each one 300 feet deep.

Each borehole contains 2 loops.
ilgeoUser is Offline
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19 Aug 2010 12:48 PM
If your bore holes are 300' deep and you manifold is in the building than your loop lengths are well over 600' each. Is that what you have? Did he grout the bore holes and do you know your static ground water level...Eric
decafdrinkerUser is Offline
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19 Aug 2010 02:54 PM
I just spoke to the borehole drilling company. They confirmed that they drilled two 270-foot boreholes. They don't have any record of how long the loops were, but my understanding is that the loops go all the way down. Thus, I have four 600 foot loops. That should be more than enough...right?
The boreholes were grouted. I didn't catch the name of the stuff, but I think the well-driller called it "Ben-Seal" or something like that.

The ground water level is quite low in this area. My parents live down a hill from me, and their water is from a well. Their well is 430 feet deep to pull sufficient water. I'm pretty sure the water table is below 300 feet on my property.
ilgeoUser is Offline
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19 Aug 2010 03:54 PM
depth of well has little to do with water table depth.Water wells in my area are 200 to 500 ft deep but water table is 40 to 80ft depending on elevation etc. yes in theory you should be fine. Any good geo contractor can remedy your situation if the bores are installed correctly...Eric
decafdrinkerUser is Offline
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19 Aug 2010 04:54 PM
Gosh, I hope they are!

Is there any way to test boreholes, other than examining system performance?
geomeUser is Offline
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19 Aug 2010 05:09 PM
Posted By stuart.wyss on 19 Aug 2010 04:54 PM
Is there any way to test boreholes, other than examining system performance?
Maybe EWT compared to design specs (or compared to the EWT limits of the unit) toward the end of heating and cooling seasons?  Just guessing...  I figure if our EWT is good at these times at the end of a harsh summer and winter, all is well loop wise.
Homeowner with WF Envision NDV038 (packaged) & NDZ026 (split), one 3000' 4 pipe closed horizontal ground loop, Prestige thermostats, desuperheaters, 85 gal. Marathon.
ilgeoUser is Offline
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19 Aug 2010 08:22 PM
Once your loop is purged of air you can use ewt- lwt after it has run under a good load for a a few days. Who did the piping and installed the flow center?
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19 Aug 2010 08:25 PM
I wasn't there the day all the piping was put in, but the well-driller and the installer worked on putting the piping in physically in the ground. The well driller confirmed the dropping of the pipe and the grouting, plus the routing into the house.

The installer did the connections to the flow center and Geo unit.
ilgeoUser is Offline
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20 Aug 2010 12:26 AM
I posted on the other thread .....but it sounds like your bores are not the issue...Eric
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