I live in NW SC & am considering getting geothermal. I am waiting on 2 other quotes (received one already-$64,000 over an email with details provided by me). One of the other quotes will be given over email with details from me but the other said he can't give me a quote until he comes out to the see the property.

I have 6.19 acres on a narrow lot. I will be having superior walls in the basement, 2x6 w/ 16" o.c. framing with spray foam for insulation (don't get me started on the framing-deciding that has been a nightmare!).

Suggestions, do's & don't's, brand recommendations, things I should avoid or any kind of tips. & yes, as people may know I do question many ideas but that is in order to learn more.

Thank you any for input.

Since you are considering IDEAS, consider DIY and learning all about it.

In morbid fear of alienating the oily salesmen and Pseudo engineers here who want me to 'go away', consider the following if you are intelligent and like to do stuff v.s siting and watching games all wekend.


Look at my post in the 'why do gt systems cost so much' thread, a later one dated 08 Mar 2011 03:26 PM.
BTW, 'geothermal' to engineers means ground temps over 150C, I personally dislike the use of 'geo' for GSHP, another example of marketing abusing the technical vocabulary.

A good DIY with engineering knowledge and plenty of tools and equipment and who has a good backyard 'scrounge' greenpile, can DIY a 5T ground or water source HP for under $1000 easily. Helps to have electronic knowledge also to design your own controls, etc. If anything at all technically intimidates you, then you probably should not even get out of bed in the morning

I heat my 5300 sq ft house in Seattle area with my $500 W/GSHP for about $150 month electric bill.

It helps to read a lot first and also to have over 50 years engineering experience and a big scrounge pile too. learn what a mollier diagram is and understand it, and you are 1/2 way there. The old standby, the ARI AC textbook is a good start to read for all the practical needs. A good scrounge pile does take a few decades to accumulate My scrounge pile yielded a big old carrier condensor & TXV, a few score feet of Cu pipe, blowers, etc, but did have to buy a good scroll comporessor witch was most of the cost. Contrary to some 'pro' advice, you can clean old copper to be as good as new - involves ferric chloride, soap and water, and good vacuum pump and air compressor. A DIY with just a skill saw and soldering iron needs to invest in a few grand of new tools, but then you will have the tools the rest of your life.

Going back many years, my first DIY HP was in 1972 using scrap ACs from cars, a wrecked '64 imperial comes to mind as one of the sources. Made some mistakes on that one (like thinking I could solder vs braze) but learned a lot.

Good luck.

Duplicate post deleted by Looby.

Posted By junkhound on 27 Mar 2011 07:05 PM
It helps to read a lot first and also to have over 50 years
engineering experience .... and you are 1/2 way there.

Exactly.

...what a maroon!

Looby

It helps to read a lot first and also to have over 50 years engineering experience and a big scrounge pile too. learn what a mollier diagram is and understand it, and you are 1/2 way there.

As much as I appreciate your posts, I have to point out that you are relatively unique in being willing to put together a ground source heat pump system from junkyard parts. Most working folks probably can't justify the cost savings even if they did manage to collect the skills and had the confidence to pull it off.

(received one already-$64,000 over an email with details provided by me)

You haven't provided many details about your heating needs, but that seems high. You have a very mild climate, don't you? Have you considered a high-efficiency air source heat pump?

not sure which details to add since I am quite uninformed about it all. I do live in a mild climate with short winters that do drop in the low teens. I am mainly concerned about my cooling needs. Is geothermal not ideal for that?

& I certainly have no engineering experience to try anything on my own.

Geoexchange could cut your cooling costs significantly (~50% better in some cases)  compared with air cooled solutions.  Some states will allow a more favorable electric rate for geo also.  I would check with your utility about the rates.

Horizontal loops, if you have the space, will usually be much less than wells for a closed loop solution. This will keep the cost down.

gonegeo
www.energysquid.com

If you are considering spending $64K, I'd first hire an expert that isn't trying to sell anything.

" I do live in a mild climate with short winters that do drop in the low teens. I am mainly concerned about my cooling needs. Is geothermal not ideal for that?"
You need estimates from air source guys as well they should be able to predict op cost for you.
Geo system paybacks tend to be quicker in heating dominated climates.
RE your questions of what to look for, how 'bout the shoppers checklist?

"In morbid fear of alienating the oily salesmen and Pseudo engineers here who want me to 'go away',"
JH, you flatter yourself while insulting contributors. Personally I don't care if you stay or go, but terms like oily and pseudo are intended to offend. Some good people here help DIYs and turn key buyers alike. You are the one with the tunnelvisioned agenda.
When you compare your Frankenstein to a sophisticated DX system and are clearly ignorant to huge disparities in the analogy (such as refrigerant in many times the quantity or the fact that their ground loops are copper vs your plastic), expect to be called out for your uneducated (in spite of 50 years of engineering) analogies.
J

'Most working folks probably can't justify the cost savings even if they did manage to collect the skills and had the confidence to pull it off.'

Agree, but then there may be that 1or 2 out of every 100 young guys or gals that just needs a little bit of encouragement - that is why I throw out DIY ideas.

I read a story once about Tyler G. Hicks, who has authored a number of books, one of which is a very broad brush engineerint tome. Seems he did not like to waste his time commuting on the commuter train, so he perused other texts, solicited others contributions, and compiled a handbook covering all engineering disciplines - just enough on each subject to let interested folks know what type knowledge existed. One of my favorite books as a 'kid' years ago.

'while insulting contributors'

Only if insulted first, heh, heh... fun place this is.

junkhound, It sounds like you are very proud of your system. Would you please post some pictures (or a link to pictures) of your system along with some explanations of what is shown?

geome: Yep, will be glad to. Will probably be next weekend though as need to go on business travel the rest of this week.

Need to figure out how to post pics here also.

OK, first pic, first you need to dig deep or drill a well, so first step is to buy and repair a used backhoe and dozer, then weld up a tower for a drilling rig and fabricate a pitman arm drive from old cars sitting around the farm.  heh, heh .. never said it was easy, but did agree that most folks dont have the will to save big $$ to get dirty??

I 'think' there is a picture attached. 

Posted By junkhound on 28 Mar 2011 02:17 PM
'while insulting contributors'

Only if insulted first, heh, heh... fun place this is.

Interesting how you edited out the rest of my post that identifies your ignorance of DX systems........great fun if you find recreation in attacking folks trying to help.
You are making sport of bragging about your system that has only taken (by your account) ~40 years to perfect. Most of my customers are not that patient.......
j

From the pic, my first thought is "well there goes another aquifer, wonder what the neighbours are drinking." $150 in Seattle doesn't seem all that great but maybe its colder and darker there than I think. Now I'm all for scrounging but in spite of what my wife thinks, my pile ain't that big. 'course a '64 Imperial would not be cannibalized. And I'm not overly fond of rules and regulations but licensing well drill might be a good thing.

Getting back to the original question - instead of beating each other up, I live in Virginia and an an air-source heat pump works very well as a heating source with the exception of very cold mornings when back up may come on. I cant imagine that a GSHP at anywhere in that price range could ever be justifed on payback in one's lifetime. If you saved $1000 a year on heating, it'd take you 50 years to recoup the additional cost, and you're not gona even spend $1000 a year if you went pure NG or propane furnace in your climate

Proposals delivered solely on the basis of email are suspect.

Virginia does indeed have a mild climate reasonably suitable to ASHP so long as considerable back-up operation is understood to be part of the solution.

That said, geo can really shine in a mid Atlantic climate since ground temps (60-ish) are especially well suited to super efficient heating and cooling.

The wells / loops needed to access those favorable ground temps will add substantially to the installed cost of the project, on the order of several thousand dollars per ton. However, operating cost savings should pay back that additional cost in a reasonable time.

We need more details to determine if $64k is a reasonable system price - sounds high but we know nothing of house size, etc.

As far as the size it will be approximately 5200 sq ft with a total of 3 floors. that is countaing the walk-out basement.

Posted By diamonddave1967 on 30 Mar 2011 03:11 AM
As far as the size it will be approximately 5200 sq ft with a total of 3 floors. that is countaing the walk-out basement.

Load calc would be more interesting than SF.
j