Hi everyone,

I'm looking to install geothermal in Dallas, TX. My latest quote (though very rough) was $40K for a 2.5-3 ton system complete with drilling, ducts, equipment and dehumidifier.

I'm not sure if this is average but I think it would be helpful and informative for me and everyone if people posted any quotes they have received and the details about what was included (important!) and size of the system etc. near Dallas, TX.

It would also be helpful to mention the quality of the install (I know we can go on and on about this one but the quantitative information like price, size etc. is most important).

I hope this will be enlightening for everyone, so if you have ever received a quote LET"S SEE IT!!!



Chris

A better use of this particular cloud's expertise (many of us are contractors / installers) might be to post details of your present proposal for us to critique. We can arm you with questions to ask of the proposer as well as help you evaluate competing bids.

One of our strengths is helping clients focus on what is important instead of getting hung up on what is trivial.

You cite price and size as most important...actually, they are least important as standalone criteria for evaluating a particular proposal. What you want is the best-executed, properly-sized system for your particular load situation offerring the best value, reputation , and support, NOT the lowest bid for the biggest system.

Refer to Joe's "shopper's checklist" for more details.

Posted By ChrisEByers on 23 Jul 2011 12:19 PM
Hi everyone,

I'm looking to install geothermal in Dallas, TX. My latest quote (though very rough) was $40K for a 2.5-3 ton system complete with drilling, ducts, equipment and dehumidifier.

I'm not sure if this is average but I think it would be helpful and informative for me and everyone if people posted any quotes they have received and the details about what was included (important!) and size of the system etc. near Dallas, TX.

It would also be helpful to mention the quality of the install (I know we can go on and on about this one but the quantitative information like price, size etc. is most important).

I hope this will be enlightening for everyone, so if you have ever received a quote LET"S SEE IT!!!



Chris

Chris I live in the Dallas area (Plano to be specific).  You've already got my recommendation for an installer, published to you on another thread in this forum.

My guess is this particular installer will be happy to furnish you with as many referals as you want to talk to, and won't have a problem if you're specific with wanting most recent installation, installations 5 years ago, or anything else.

Good luck!

Best regards,

Bill

Posted By engineer on 23 Jul 2011 10:57 PM
A better use of this particular cloud's expertise (many of us are contractors / installers) might be to post details of your present proposal for us to critique. We can arm you with questions to ask of the proposer as well as help you evaluate competing bids.

One of our strengths is helping clients focus on what is important instead of getting hung up on what is trivial.

You cite price and size as most important...actually, they are least important as standalone criteria for evaluating a particular proposal. What you want is the best-executed, properly-sized system for your particular load situation offerring the best value, reputation , and support, NOT the lowest bid for the biggest system.

Refer to Joe's "shopper's checklist" for more details.

Curt,

What may seem "trivial" to you is not trivial to me. Price is always a very important part of the equation, if it were not then dealers would be more transparent about it. Even though I may be listed as a "New Member" on the board does not mean I am a novice in understanding all the points you have mentioned. I will certainly bring the details of my quotes to your experienced eyes. But I am also curious about price, which the group is also experienced with.

I like to ask questions to which I do not know the answer, my restriction and intentional lack of focus on all other parts of geothermal does not translate into a lack of understanding of those parts but a want to understand the subject which I asked the question about. I cited price as important for the focus of this thread, not for evaluating a proposal.

Indeed, if I had asked about heat saturation in ferris-heiden and chose not to focus on price, surely this would be an interesting discussion. Yet I chose to ask about price and I hope to have a lively discussion about that. This is why I mentioned it was necessary to list the specifics and thoughts about the install (reputation, support, value etc.) but we have enough threads that focus on those. How many focus on price and refer people to read the other hundreds of threads about execution, proper sizing etc?

Bill,

Thanks for the great recommendation, I have looked into the installer and I am pleasantly surprised!!

Chris

Hey Chris,

I'm in the OKC area. I'm having a 4 ton system installed. I have 3 zones, and all aluminum duct work, except for the returns. They are drilling (2) 400 ft. deep vertical wells. This is the guy who put the geo in Bob Stoops new house, and the quality seems great. He quoted me $23,500. Another bid I had was for $22,000 with soft ducts and no zoning, or $24,500 if that contractor added those items.

~Rosalynn

I would ask how many CFM are required for efficient operation and how many CFM will be flowing when only the smallest zone is calling for heat (ie, the other two zones are blocked off). Also consider whether you want to live with that much air from a limited number of vents.

"CFM required for efficient operation" is a nebulous concept. The right answer ranges anywhere from 250-500 CFM per nominal ton, very much dependent upon specific local operating conditions.

Single zone CFM is likely equivalent to low stage CFM. The issue is not the absolute CFM but rather what is done with airflow in excess of single zone requirements. It may be overblown, returned, dumped, or cracked into other zones. The right answer is generally a combination of the foregoing; the HVAC contractor should be able to articulate his / her choices.

Rosalynn,

Thanks for posting! Its good to hear something about aluminum duct work, is your house a one or two story... and how many square feet?

Perhaps it is 26ga steel duct Rosalynn?
j

It may be overblown, returned, dumped, or cracked into other zones.

All of which reduce COP as compared to all zones on. And most zone systems unbalance the pressure in the rooms which increases air infiltration. On the other hand, a zoned system could allow one to not heat/cool areas that are not used for portions of a day.

Posted By jonr on 27 Jul 2011 10:33 AM

It may be overblown, returned, dumped, or cracked into other zones.

All of which reduce COP as compared to all zones on. And most zone systems unbalance the pressure in the rooms which increases air infiltration.

There is rarely a COP advantage to zoning. We trade efficiency for comfort all the time.
j

IMO, zones are most useful when you have rooms with highly variable loads - say a room with solar gain. But even in that case, I suspect that one is better off (ie, more comfort) just running the fan more (to even things out).

I take exception to the premise that zoned systems somehow automatically unbalance room pressures. All my deep energy retrofits include provision for proper returns. Even modest 1300 SF 3/2 rentals get a set of jump ducts connecting each bedroom to the central hallway - less than $100 in materials and a half day's labor. I don't spend a lot of time designing those systems - I apply a "plus 2" rule: If a room is supplied by a six inch duct, it gets an eight inch return, and so forth.

Zoning is a big chunk of my "value proposition". I routinely provide 3+ zones with provision for managing excess / minimum airflow, generally a combination of slightly oversized small zone ductwork and a cracked central zone damper. Clients appreciate being able to walk a few steps to a nearby stat without the guilt associated with cooling / heating the entire house. I get to shave a bit of tonnage ny providing zoning that follows solar gain as it moves around the house through the day.

Clients tell me that, regardless of the energy savings I hang my hat upon, they are finally truly comfortable for the first time ever in their homes

I fail to perceive a connection between zoning and reduced COP. In fact, managed properly, zoning lets me hold a 2 stage system in low gear for all but the worst couple hours of the day. Two stage systems operate very very efficiently in low gear. In one case I yanked a "dumb" zone board that kicked a 4 zone system into high gear if more than 1 zone was calling and replaced it with a smarter one that accounted for zone weight and call severity (Y1 vs Y2) That one change saved ~10 kWh / day.

While Joe and I tend to gently disagree about the relative value of zoning, mostly due to differing local climate and house designs, I suspect my critic herewith knows little of what he writes, perhaps not for the first time on these shores...

Posted By joe.ami on 27 Jul 2011 09:47 AM
Perhaps it is 26ga steel duct Rosalynn?
j

Might be. It's hard round ducts that are wrapped in insulation, rather than soft ducts. Sealed with mastic.

Posted By ChrisEByers on 26 Jul 2011 11:26 PM
Rosalynn,

Thanks for posting! Its good to hear something about aluminum duct work, is your house a one or two story... and how many square feet?

I have 2200 sf on the bottom floor, and 600 sf in a bonus room over the garage. We dropped the garage 3 feet in the ground, so it's more of a tri-level, not a true 2nd story. We're insulating the house pretty well to be able to get this small of a unit for this big of a house.

rosalynn, I would think that aluminum would be too expensive to be used as ducts. I have not seen it used and I go back to the 1970's.

Posted By Alton on 29 Jul 2011 12:33 PM
rosalynn, I would think that aluminum would be too expensive to be used as ducts. I have not seen it used and I go back to the 1970's.

Thanks for the correction, please pardon my mistake. Somewhere I heard the term "aluminum duct work" and it stuck.

I have rigid metal duct work sealed with mastic, and wrapped in fiberglass. I'm still looking into insulating it better....MUCH better.

rosalynn, Fiberglass duct wrap has a low R-value. One way to better insulate ducts is to spray them with foam. Wrapping the ducts with vinyl before spraying allows easy future access. Foam sticks so well that it is difficult to remove.

Fiberglass ductwrap can have R values of 8.4 when installed.This would be 3" fsk. It is very important to seal the outer vapor barrier. Just how much R value does duct work need. The velocity of the air moving thru the duct especially in residential construction would not require any R value higher than 8.4. The amount of energy saved would be negliigible.