joe.ami
Veteran Member
Posts:4377
 |
| 14 Mar 2013 09:33 AM |
|
For somewhere around 3.7 billion Daiken now owns Goodman and Amana HVAC. Some manufacturing will move from Asia to Houston. Will be interesting to see the leader in VRV combined with the leader in resi HVAC. |
|
Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort! |
|
|
|
|
Dana1
Senior Member
Posts:6991
|
| 14 Mar 2013 10:32 AM |
|
I know of one installation in eastern MA of a Daikin/Goodman ducted-minisplit using a Goodman-technology air handler and a Daikin outdoor unit. First-person reports from the guy living with it indicates that they may have some control strategy issues yet to work out, but it's doing the job.
This was on a deep energy retrofit house that IMHO would have been better served by a 3-head multi-split solution, but the owner seemed committed to using the pre-existing ducts. He has an extensive private-blog about the project that is still a work in progress. He seems concerned about letting it get picked up by web-spiders and being broadly distributed before it's ready. When he's ready to share it more openly I'll post the URL.
(Joe, check your PM.)
|
|
|
|
|
ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
|
| 14 Mar 2013 02:41 PM |
|
Daikin already owns McQuay. I wonder what they have been up to over there? |
|
|
|
|
Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
|
| 14 Mar 2013 02:54 PM |
|
A couple of years ago, I tried to spec a Daikin system for a home. Never could find a Daikin dealer to work with. Maybe this merger will correct that type of problem since Goodman is so well established. |
|
Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
|
|
Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
|
| 14 Mar 2013 06:29 PM |
|
Posted By Alton on 14 Mar 2013 02:54 PM
A couple of years ago, I tried to spec a Daikin system for a home. Never could find a Daikin dealer to work with. Maybe this merger will correct that type of problem since Goodman is so well established.
Alton, I think I have decided on getting "Mitsubishi" for my mini-splits. They seem to have a pretty good rating and service is decent. The Daikin is still a possibility, will see when that time comes. Hopefully the merger makes things better not worse. Sometimes the latter happens with mergers. |
|
|
|
|
Dana1
Senior Member
Posts:6991
|
| 14 Mar 2013 06:57 PM |
|
Mitsubishi is the company that literally invented the company, and their marketing & support in the US is better than most- you could definitely do worse.
Fujitsu is probably the next largest, and for places with 99% design temps above -15C/+5F they will often beat some of the Mitsubishi Hyper-Heating units on capacity & raw efficiency performance. (Caution- it's a moving target- they are ALL getting better all the time, even when the model numbers don't change.)
Daikin tends to be a cut above the rest of the pack on features & overall quality, as well as a reputation for delivering better-than-specified performance. But they have yet to hit critical mass in many US local markets. IIRC, in the NEEAs Ductless project (see: http://neea.org/initiatives/residential/ductless-heat-pumps) they ran a distant third in number of units installed.
Between the three of them they hold a huge share of the overall US market, but they are not the only decent manufacturers. (There are some LG and Sanyo models that are great performers, and I'm sure there are others.)
When soliciting quotes for my mother's place in WA only one Fujitsu installer showed up, couldn't find a Daikin installer who would even return calls (guess they're busy, but fewer in number), but it was dead-easy to find multiple Mitsubishi installers within a half-hours drive, with competitive quotes. ( Guess which make got installed!? ;-) ) She's totally happy with her -FE18NA, after more than a year of use, and she knows 3 places to call if it ever has issues.
Lbear: Mitsubishi has a "Master Installers" program, referring those who have taken the distributor's tech-training and installed x-number of units successfully, so if you think that's who you're going with it's probably worth using their online installer-finder and use somebody who at least passed the test even if they slept through the presentation. It's not rocket science to install a mini-split, but there is quite a range of general competence and professionalism in the HVAC industry. Distributors tend to know who the competent contractors are, installing them by the dozen with nary a complaint, and who the slobs leaving a mess in their wake and won't follow up with the customers, leaving it for the distributor to handle the warranty support issues are. (That helped narrow the decision at my mother's place- we didn't go with the low bidder, but it wasn't very much more to go with proposal from the master-installer with multiple offices in the region.) |
|
|
|
|
acwizard
Basic Member
Posts:265
|
| 14 Mar 2013 09:50 PM |
|
Last time I checked Daikin was the number one manufacturer of hvac equipment in the world.Mitsubishi minisplits are the most popular because of their marketing presence and great customer service support.Daikin products are usually distributed by mfg.reps of larger scale hvac equipment such as McQuay.Daikin VRF systems compete quite well with Mitsubishi's City Multi.There are so many mfgs of mini splits such as the names Dana mentioned and a slew more of them.It's endless From the inexpensive to the cadillacs like Mitsubishi, they all can have issues. The key to minimize problems is to find an installer that does first class work. |
|
|
|
|
Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
|
| 14 Mar 2013 10:22 PM |
|
Visually speaking, the LG "Art Cool" mini-split has the nicest wall units out there, hands down. The problem seems that the units themselves are not as high caliber as the Mitsubishi and others mentioned. I hope Mitsubishi catches on and designs an aesthetically pleasing wall unit instead of the typical white plastic units that are not too pleasing to the eye.
|
|
|
|
|
MikeSolar
Basic Member
Posts:376
|
| 15 Mar 2013 06:24 AM |
|
From the mouth of some of my British fridgies.....Mitsi first, Sanyo and Toshiba (don't know if they are available here, haven't looked), then Fujitsu..........LG is considered way.... way down the line with a LOT of service calls and not much company support. Daikin was considered good some years ago but seems to be slipping, from a service point of view.
My suppliers here in Toronto don't rate LG very good.
|
|
| www.BossSolar.com |
|
|
joe.ami
Veteran Member
Posts:4377
|
| 15 Mar 2013 07:47 AM |
|
Posted By Lbear on 14 Mar 2013 10:22 PM
Visually speaking, the LG "Art Cool" mini-split has the nicest wall units out there, hands down. The problem seems that the units themselves are not as high caliber as the Mitsubishi and others mentioned. I hope Mitsubishi catches on and designs an aesthetically pleasing wall unit instead of the typical white plastic units that are not too pleasing to the eye.
Has it occurred to any one that the "art" is part of the problem. |
|
Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort! |
|
|
ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
|
| 15 Mar 2013 09:09 AM |
|
the typical white plastic units that are not too pleasing to the eye. Ha Ha. I was just discussing this yesterday with a group of people interested in green solutions. What is the fascination with hiding this technology? All that is necessary is to evolve to the point where you embrace it and are proud of it. I would say that's the case with many people I know locally who have gone over to mini splits from something else. I've been in more than one multimillion dollar home (particularly in Europe) where the man drives a quarter million dollar car and carries a title and the woman carries $15,000 handbags, who are, well, proud of their wall mounts. Really, it's all a matter of attitude. |
|
|
|
|
geome
Advanced Member
Posts:987
|
| 15 Mar 2013 12:10 PM |
|
Posted By ICFHybrid on 15 Mar 2013 09:09 AM
the typical white plastic units that are not too pleasing to the eye. Ha Ha. I was just discussing this yesterday with a group of people interested in green solutions. What is the fascination with hiding this technology? All that is necessary is to evolve to the point where you embrace it and are proud of it. I would say that's the case with many people I know locally who have gone over to mini splits from something else. I've been in more than one multimillion dollar home (particularly in Europe) where the man drives a quarter million dollar car and carries a title and the woman carries $15,000 handbags, who are, well, proud of their wall mounts. Really, it's all a matter of attitude.
Good technology that looks like a through-the-wall air conditioner still looks like a through-the-wall air conditioner, no matter what you think of it. Sell it on it's merits. Aesthetics isn't one of them. |
|
| Homeowner with WF Envision NDV038 (packaged) & NDZ026 (split), one 3000' 4 pipe closed horizontal ground loop, Prestige thermostats, desuperheaters, 85 gal. Marathon. |
|
|
engineer
Veteran Member
Posts:2749
|
| 15 Mar 2013 12:35 PM |
|
Awhile back in this thread Goodman / Amana was described as a leader...I'll agree with "low price leader", but that's about it. |
|
Curt Kinder <br><br>
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
|
|
|
Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
|
| 15 Mar 2013 12:49 PM |
|
Posted By ICFHybrid on 15 Mar 2013 09:09 AM
the typical white plastic units that are not too pleasing to the eye. Ha Ha. I was just discussing this yesterday with a group of people interested in green solutions. What is the fascination with hiding this technology? All that is necessary is to evolve to the point where you embrace it and are proud of it. I would say that's the case with many people I know locally who have gone over to mini splits from something else. I've been in more than one multimillion dollar home (particularly in Europe) where the man drives a quarter million dollar car and carries a title and the woman carries $15,000 handbags, who are, well, proud of their wall mounts. Really, it's all a matter of attitude.
A big white plastic box that looks like a supermarket door fly blower machine or a 1970's window mounted A/C unit is plain ugly. It's not about "hiding" it but having it be displayed and at the same time be aesthetically pleasing to the eye. At least offer it in different colors except in just plain white. |
|
|
|
|
ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
|
| 15 Mar 2013 06:12 PM |
|
Awhile back in this thread Goodman / Amana was described as a leader...I'll agree with "low price leader", but that's about it. I think we can be fairly secure in assuming that Daikin does not plan to continue in that mode. |
|
|
|
|
ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
|
| 15 Mar 2013 06:14 PM |
|
Aesthetics isn't one of them. Oh no! Now you're offending the sensibilities of people who drive quarter million dollar cars and carry $15,000 handbags. Whatever is next? |
|
|
|
|
ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
|
| 15 Mar 2013 06:14 PM |
|
At least offer it in different colors except in just plain white. I'm pretty sure mine are sorta off-white. |
|
|
|
|
geome
Advanced Member
Posts:987
|
| 15 Mar 2013 08:37 PM |
|
Posted By ICFHybrid on 15 Mar 2013 06:14 PM
Aesthetics isn't one of them. Oh no! Now you're offending the sensibilities of people who drive quarter million dollar cars and carry $15,000 handbags. Whatever is next?
For those that like the through-the-wall AC look, then have at it. There's no accounting for taste.  |
|
| Homeowner with WF Envision NDV038 (packaged) & NDZ026 (split), one 3000' 4 pipe closed horizontal ground loop, Prestige thermostats, desuperheaters, 85 gal. Marathon. |
|
|
ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
|
| 15 Mar 2013 09:19 PM |
|
There's no accounting for taste.
Yeah, I've never had to pay more than a couple hundred for a good handbag. |
|
|
|
|
Looby
Basic Member
Posts:401
|
| 16 Mar 2013 10:58 AM |
|
Posted By ICFHybrid on 15 Mar 2013 09:19 PM
Yeah, I've never had to pay more than a couple hundred for a good handbag.
Do you buy your mini splits from the thrift store, too? |
|
| One measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions. |
|
|