Posted By engineer on 15 Mar 2013 12:35 PM
Awhile back in this thread Goodman / Amana was described as a leader...I'll agree with "low price leader", but that's about it.

That is an uneducated view, but popular amongst people who sell other products. I would take Goodman over any brand out there. While it's true their equipment had problems in the 90's they bought Amana early this century to get the heat exchanger technology- problem solved. Meanwhile the C word had problems too, they however prentended the problem wasn't there until they lost the class action law-suit. Goodman single handedly drove the industry into a 5 year part warranty in the 90's and lead with a 10 year part warranty now. I noticed a year or so ago a Bryant came with a five year part warranty but a Payne (which is a Bryant with a different name tag for those who aren't Bryant dealers) you got 10.......same damned product, but one spends money on name recognition instead of warranty. The Goodman history of HVAC contractor to distributor to manufacturer is a good American dream tale (the company was still not public with this recent sale, though they were no longer completely held by the family). Incidently I refered to them as a leader as they surpassed the Carrier, Bryant family a few years back as the largest resi HVAC seller in the US market. Compare the products, look closely and the engineer in you will appreciate the Goodman or Amana offerings over the others....... all that said it's still more important who people buy the furnace from.

You know, I haven't seen any at the "RE" Store.

Here's what argues against it though; the modern units are so much more efficient than the last generation, etc., that you could end up spending more on energy than the savings you realized with a second hand unit. Even if you ran across a "great buy" that someone pulled out of a vacation cabin, for example, that was only used a few weeks a year, it might not be worth it if you are putting it into a residence where it will be used full time, simply because a new unit might be much more energy efficient.

My experience with / perception of G/A is that they cut too many corners. My volume ain't real high like the big boys in town but I've had a fistful of nitwit warranty issues on a relatively small number of systems:

A six month old system lost its charge for want of a wire tie keeping the compressor run lead off the common suction port line.
Another I didn't install dumped a pricey ECM blower motor after a year - no idea why...the client had given me a good reference for some unrelated energy audit / retrofit work so I took care of him nearly at cost.
I took delivery of a SEER 18 heat pump, unboxed it at the jobsite only to find a forklift tine had punched its lights out...lost 2 days on that fiasco.
They misled me on AHU selection for a 2T SEER 16 unit, (3137 vs 1824)and I never could get the stage 1 airflow low enough for proper dehu...they kinda sorta admitted the error, but too late to get it right.
One two year old 2 stage package unit I'm dealing with this week lost its charge owing to the compressor discharge capillary tube breaking off at the reversing valve...we changed the RV and the compressor died. Counter guy acknowledged those RVs are flaky (they've changed vendor on those) and that failed RVs sometimes kill compressors...client is a struggling church so I'm in charity pricing mode.

Then there's the $50 service charge for a warranty compressor swap

Then there's the 20 field warranty form to fill out...I put my laptop on the service counter and hand copy a bunch of fields from THEIR warranty certificate onto THEIR warranty part form. They want us to look up and note failure codes by a numbering system akin to Chinese restaurant menu...with Trane I give a serial number and the part I need - no forms. I read the riot act to a G/A headquarters puke about that nonsense and, perhaps coincidentally, it has gotten better...the counter guys fill out the redundant stuff for me.

Then there's the emailed pricing for their GSC branded equipment upon which I based a tight margin job, only to be told that the local distributor "doesn't like GSC", so if I want that price I have to drive 100 miles to the GSC distributor...that's not happening, so I ate it.

So while you may label my view as "uneducated", but it has arisen from classes at the school of hard knocks. Two years ago I would have agreed with you... G/A systems share many common components of pricier national brands and their prices are appreciably lower, but I've since learned there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Joe, we tend to be on the same page on most stuff, but not this time. Maybe Goodman furnaces are the cat's meow, but I'll never know, we don't burn gas at home to stay warm down here, we let the power utility do it for us.

I've done a half dozen or so Carrier / Payne units in the past year or so...my Carrier Enterprises sales guy is a class act. I'll admit I have no idea how Carrier processes warranty part claims...perhaps because I haven't had a single claim so far, knock on wood.

It sounds like you have been educated.

Unfortunately a good deal of that education is from the guy you are buying the equipment from.
Certainly the paperwork is a local thing (I fill out 1 page) as is the hole in the product line/availability. I'm unclear as to who selected the wrong air handler for you but I'll bet the fork lift damage occurred locally as well (certainly the wasted time was easily avoided). (BTW, two tips for you: don't drive anywhere without checking the product for damage and always spin a new motor shaft before you leave the supply house).

I did not know what their compressor labor allowance is as I have literally never had one fail during the warranty period (since 1988). I can not say the same for U/T. I do find the allowances in their extended warranties better than average. I suspect again that there may be local impact on that allowance (perhaps the distributor is keeping part of it for "handling").
Goodman tends to be rather transparent when they have trouble and you would often get fix notices (if the missing wire tie for instance is an assembly line error vs a one time oops).

However I don't like U/T, I don't like their inferior heat exchangers, or their labor allowance for a furnace change out after the class action law-suit. Or the fact that they had to be sued to sack-up and take care of customers who bought those POS's. Or the fact that those furnaces were in production for more than a generation in spite of the trouble. I find many of their parts inferior and expensive......but maybe that's because of their distributor who is also why I switched geo brands a few years ago.

I've never met the president of U/T but spoke with the Goodman/Amana president in person Thursday.

While I have seen bad heat exchangers on Amana furnaces, never has one of mine failed. Usually installer error was at fault on the others. Where they do fail, the customer is protected by a lifetime change out warranty which provides a new furnace at no charge. Installation can actually be cheaper than heat exchanger replacement in some circumstances (or no charge if they have extended labor warranty). Goodman had a bad run in the 90's but that's why the bougt Amana (to get the superior heat exchanger). For a time (since passed) owners of those furnaces were able to exchange for a new furnace (vs heat ex replacement).

Perhaps we have stumbled on another regional thing here. Certainly I judge a manufacturer by their furnaces and don't sell 18 seer anything as the customers realize very little benefit from it in the land of relatively mild summers and cheap KWH's

So my apologies for questioning your education, but I would like at least our Northern/heating dominated readers to select Goodman or Amana (as there are differences) when they buy furnaces.
I suggest readers heed your recommendations in cooling dominated design.

Fair points all.

Furnaces are a whole different animal