Posted By FBBP on 04 Nov 2013 06:43 PM
Doc - I was just inferring that we tend to go to great lengths, anywhere in the country, to drain the soils around basements with granular fill and drain pipe, to protect the basement from moisture and water ingress. This would seem counter productive to geo, right?

It might make sense if you over excavate to get the dig wall seven or eight feet away from the basement wall but then you still have the expensive of the dig.

Yes, granular fill is usually 3 feet around the house (with drain pipes), on which border we put the edge of the slinky. There clay compacts nicely around the slinkies. Again, no need to keep it very wet, just average clay with good moisture content. Over excavation that way is 4', just as much as a trench would be. If it is too dry you have to do the math and add more pipe. In our climate and soil 150 feet of trench length are enough, (2) 1" slinkies stacked above each other, to support 3 tons.

Posted By robinnc on 04 Nov 2013 07:35 PM
Sky, of the 50 you install each year. How many of those on average to you vertical drill for? Have you ever looked into buyng your own drill rig?

We have vertically drilled one loop ever, its just to spendy. We do horizontally drill 5-8 per year but it still does not make sense to buy a drill rig, my guys are heating guys not drillers, it is not in my business model to buy excavation equipment or drilling equipment especially since we do not have the trucks to tow it with, the manpower to learn another task or the space to store it. My shop which is 4,000 sq feet is on a 1/2 acre in the middle of Portland Oregon and we also have a 1,600 sq foot office so by the time we have 10 vehicles parked we have no extra room for equipment, plus its likely to get stolen since we can't put barbed wire fence's up where we are.
On the labor side of things we are 25 people strong and I can't find service techs and installers fast enough so trying to get into another industry(drilling/excavating) and hiring people for that just doesn't make sense.
I appreciate all of you trying to think of other ways but I assure you I have ran through everything and thats why I am so interested in the possibility of a foundation heat exchanger since the digging is already done and its done by somebody else and saves me from the high cost of drilling or excavating. Most geo jobs we do are on 3,000 sq foot and larger homes, I want to find a way to make this economically feasible for a 1,600 sq foot and up home so we can grow and get more jobs.

DocJensenor/Buffalo, thank you for your response, I am glad to hear you have done this with some success in the 3 ton and smaller range. I already know I will be trying this as an experiment on my personal home before ever implementing in a customers home but if I can make this concept work it will open the door for a lot more business in my high cost area.

Glad to hear you speak logically about not "just buying a cheap drill rig and installing your own loops". I would really love to see a video of somebody actually buying there own drilling rig and drilling there own wells.

Posted By Calladrilling on 06 Nov 2013 10:12 PM
Glad to hear you speak logically about not "just buying a cheap drill rig and installing your own loops". I would really love to see a video of somebody actually buying there own drilling rig and drilling there own wells.

Contact Geo Dean, here on this forum.  Bill

Posted By Calladrilling on 06 Nov 2013 10:12 PM
I would really love to see a video of somebody actually buying there own drilling rig and drilling there own wells.

Here is picture of a DIY shallow well install:

I know a fella in mid MI who used an ice auger with extensions. I had to distance myself as he wished to install open loop where it was not permitted. I understand he tore a knee or shoulder or something. Guessing no grout.

I'm pretty sure I've seen price rigging among well drillers. Prices were too consistent and out of line with other places, even in easy conditions.

Although doing it the same time as the foundation makes sense, digging horizontal loop trenches isn't so hard to do yourself. Or rent the equipment and pay a good operator hourly (I know I'm slow with a backhoe).

Hire a pro is really the way to go.
Well drilling prices in my area were just too expensive and the learning curve was fun and the rented vac truck worked well, once we put downward pressure on the pipe.
I tried to delete my earlier posted picture as it is way too primitive of an operation, almost to the ice auger level. Sorry for posting it.

"I'm pretty sure I've seen price rigging among well drillers. Prices were too consistent and out of line with other places, even in easy conditions."

You are implying criminal behavior, where another assumption you could make is that competition has driven price about as low as it can go with driller still profiting.

I am a driller. I was being sarcastic. People think its easy to drill. Just turn a few knobs, drill a hole, pull the drill stem back out of the hole and shove the loop in! You can get yourself a $3000 drilling rig attachment for a Bobcat or Farm tractor and start drilling..... Forget the important things like State licensing, ground water contamination, safety, among other things too.

Posted By nooboo on 07 Nov 2013 12:33 AM

Posted By Calladrilling on 06 Nov 2013 10:12 PM
I would really love to see a video of somebody actually buying there own drilling rig and drilling there own wells.

Here is picture of a DIY shallow well install:

Here is a great video of what can happen when you don't know what you are doing .

Look at what happens to the guy on the right at  the 1:40 mark.