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MDiver
 New Member
 Posts:56
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| 06 Mar 2009 11:03 PM |
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If you can't draw a set of correct, quality prints by hand, then you have no business using a computer as a crutch. I have seen alot of errors on computer drafted plans. |
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wes
 Advanced Member
 Posts:810
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| 07 Mar 2009 09:17 AM |
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I would put the rate of errors of computer plans vs hand drawn at 5 times as high. The simple fact is that computers allow people to design houses without really knowing how to build houses. The computer draws a pretty picture, but doesn't tell you that what you have drawn won't work. I can't remember how many times I've been asked to build a house from plans drawn by the owner on a Wal-Mart software program. And they get mad at me when I tell them that their plans won't build. |
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| Wes Shelby<br>Design Systems Group<br>Murray KY<br>[email protected] |
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ICFconstruction
 Veteran Member
 Posts:1324

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| 07 Mar 2009 10:26 AM |
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Wes, are saying you see more errors on computer drawn plans? How can that be?
But I would agree you should be able to hand draw to use a computer. |
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| Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net |
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wes
 Advanced Member
 Posts:810
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| 07 Mar 2009 05:24 PM |
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Ever heard the saying 'Garbage in, garbage out.' A CAD program is only as good as the person using it. And a lot more people know how to turn on a computer than ever picked up a drafting ruler. |
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| Wes Shelby<br>Design Systems Group<br>Murray KY<br>[email protected] |
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Bruce Frey
 Basic Member
 Posts:429
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| 07 Mar 2009 06:02 PM |
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The problem is not the computer, but rather the "operator." Regardless of whether you can lay down a good pencil line or deal with a CAD program, it is a matter of knowledge.
Architects generally go to school for 5 years and usally spend the first few years of their career doing grunt work....production drawings and details....and hopefully they will also spend some time in the field learning about how things are REALLY built.
I work with architects and engineers on a daily basis and I have more of an "engineer" brain than an "architect" brain. After 37 years of doing this stuff, I will still not see things that a GOOD architect will see immediately. Architects are trained to understand spatial relationships and adjacency requirements that are often overlooked.
My design teams use AutoCad for our projects (I am basically Autocad illiterate and hope to remain that way..I use a viewer when necesssary), but I use a cheapie program (Punch!) that has a shallow learning curve to do the sketches of my future house.
Rather than spending money for AutoCad or a full featured version of Chief Architect, spend your money on a copy of the AIA Architectural Graphic Standards and/or Time Saver Standards for Interior Design and Space Planing and start to understand basic architecture and space requirements. You don't know what you don't know.
A well though out space plan or schematic design on paper is better that a poorly conceived set of "working drawings" done on CAD. While you can do it yourself, I think you will usually be better off with an experienced pro. Having said that, my nephew, who works for a major home builder in the midwest, said that my "drawings" were better than many he sees...which is a bit scary.
The more that is left to the imagination of the contractor, no matter he good he is, is the basis for misunderstandings...which can mean claims, added cost and heatburn for all involved. There is no substitute for a good set of construction documents and specifications. Everyone should have the same expectations when the conytracts are signed.
Hiring a good architect or at least a competent and experienced draftsman will probably save you money in the long term....especially if you have not done this before. If you are building it yourself, you will have have a greater appreciation for acrhitects at the end of the job.
Bruce
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Bruce Frey
 Basic Member
 Posts:429
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| 07 Mar 2009 06:14 PM |
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......this thread reminds me of one of my favorite construction cortoons (which I will scan and post if I can find it in my paper files).
The cartoon shows someone with their face buried in their hands saying "OMG.....you built it just like I drew it".
Bruce |
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ICFconstruction
 Veteran Member
 Posts:1324

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| 07 Mar 2009 08:57 PM |
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Well said Bruce, I like to complain about architects from time to time, and say things like "they obviously have never built anything". I say the same about engineers too. However in reality they do their job well and can deffiently save a homeowner with an accurate and efficient design.
I would like to have software to be able to draw simple plans and to play with, but like most things it pays to hire a specialist. |
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| Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net |
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PanelCrafters
 Advanced Member
 Posts:680
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| 08 Mar 2009 06:08 PM |
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Posted By wes on 03/07/2009 9:17 AM I can't remember how many times I've been asked to build a house from plans drawn by the owner on a Wal-Mart software program. And they get mad at me when I tell them that their plans won't build. Yup. We won't accept owner drawn 'plans'. We made that mistake once. It won't happen again(unless, of course, the owner is an architect!)... |
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| ....jc<br>If you're not building with OSB SIPS(or ICF's), why are you building? |
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hgoed
 New Member
 Posts:10
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| 08 Mar 2009 09:37 PM |
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I’ve done my own plan on Chief Architect. I realize it’s pricier than most would use, definitely not Wal-Mart software, but it was bought for a different project. While it took me a lot longer than an architect would likely have needed, I’ve found the process to be an invaluable experience.
Realize that those that frequent this forum are more likely to care about how each element of their home works as a system. As a result of this design, I’ve been motivated to read about different methods of construction, heating, energy use etc… and decide which would be most efficient and work best in my home. I shudder to think how much I would have had to pay an architect to draw out plans for each idea I had in order to see how it would affect my overall design. I can print the same level of detail as anyone else. While I agree that some may create idiotic plans (and maybe some of you would think mine are), just paying someone else to make the plan doesn’t mean that person isn’t also an idiot.
Finally, I’ve found having my own plans on the computer helps check the contractors’ estimates. I’ve gotten estimates back using numbers (i.e. roof surface area, drywall materials etc…) twice what the plan needs. I can see some margin of error, but it’s nice to know when someone needs to re-check their math. I’ll be getting HVAC calc too.
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