I did quite a bit of research on this type of wall system a few years ago for our own home.

I found a few things.

Residential is more much expensive due to the scale of construction and scope of jobs. One of a kind smaller structures were of little interest to these companies because they were busy doing commercial projects. This economy may have changed this.

Location of the job and the source company was key. The in-factory made walls are better but shipping can stop the project due to cost. I did find several companies that were doing on site tilt up walls. This is a good option for the smaller job and allows more personalization of the job. You do however need space to lay out and pour the walls.

What would be the design of a tilt-up CIC wall? I assume something like mesh embedded in the middle of 2" of concrete, then foam, then another layer of mesh in the middle of 2 more inches of concrete. Are there any cross-ties that tie the two layers of mesh together (ie, that punch through the foam)?

For an application I'm looking at, tilt-up CIC would work if the concrete surfaces could be used directly (perhaps with a thin coat of synthetic stucco/plaster for better looks) and something other than a crane (a backhoe?) could be used to tilt the panels up.

The CIC walls that I looked at all had cross ties.

http://www.hkties.com/ has good examples http://www.thermomass.com/ does this as well.

Most of the walls did not need stucco though you can apply it. Here where I am they either have the walls prefinished with a brick or rock pattern or they acid stain them. Some more examples http://www.dukaneprecast.com/about_wall_panels.cfm http://www.kerkstra.com/WallPanelsRes.php

Jonr & Magill & Bruce Frey, & Jere,

I really appreciate your comments.  I think I have given up on factory precast CIC based upon Bruce Frey's comments.  So far I have not gotten a response from the CIC manufacturer to my inquiry although I used my Development Company's name on their contact form.  I do not see why companies have a contact form on the internet and then not respond to it.  This is not the first time this has happened.  Many times after waiting a few weeks for a response to my questions submitted through their contact form I end up using the phone which probably disrupts their schedule as much as mine.

I am still interested in checking out CIC tilt-up and cast-in-place CIC.  I need all the info I can get about on-site CIC.  Does anyone have any experience with on-site CIC they care to share. 

It looks like 1.5" concrete is common with some even using 1".

Alton,
Check out Ideal Precast in Durham NC. They have a precast concrete-insulation-steel stud system that could be of use. There is an outfit in NC that makes a cfc sandwich precast panel. I only have 2nd hand information regarding the residential owner commenting that he could never get his home "comfortable" due to the interior concrete surface. I do know that Ideal Precast has done multiple projects above grade on either a rubble trench or notched raised slab application.

Any idea what he meant by not getting comfortable? Humidity, summer, winter, some type of mean radiant temperature effect?

Regarding the interior finish issue, perhaps steel studs of some design could be embedded right into the concrete as part of the reinforcement. But also stand proud of the concrete to allow a gap for wiring and drywall attachment.

I think that the issue revolved around the home being used for vacations and short stays. If the walls are left unconditioned, then I can see some time lag while the walls are charging.

True, high mass walls are not so good for changing situations or thermostat setbacks.

Have you talked to saebi alternative building system, SABS? Thinner coats if gfrc applied to thicker eps panels. The engineering must be amazing with no metal reinforcement or ties between gfrc layers. Is it too good to be true? Lol

It would be interesting to see costing on a tilt up system for a fairly simple boxy modern home too.

I suppose SABS depends on the density and thickness of the foam. Once the wall is up, I doubt that steel is of much benefit since there is mostly compression force downward. And fibers can help with cracking.

Jonr,

I look forward to using SABS on one of my projects.  I would use this engineered system without hesitation since I have already seen it.  The thing that is holding me back now is that it is not readily available.  If and when I do the next phase on my subdivision, I will definitely consider using SABS.  Since I have retired from physical work (hard labor in the southern sun) I will need to get a local crew trained in this new method before I can use SABS.  In the meantime, if anyone knows of a SABS crew that will travel in the Southeast, then I may get to use it sooner than later.

Posted By buck3647 on 02 Aug 2010 08:31 AM
Not sure what your project is My company does monoltihic concrete construction where rebar is sprayed with concrete then spray foam used for insulation and water proofing
www.safedomes.com

Buck3647,

Does your territory cover Northern Alabama?

Posted By Alton on 11 Aug 2010 08:25 AM

Jonr,

I look forward to using SABS on one of my projects.  I would use this engineered system without hesitation since I have already seen it.  The thing that is holding me back now is that it is not readily available.  If and when I do the next phase on my subdivision, I will definitely consider using SABS.  Since I have retired from physical work (hard labor in the southern sun) I will need to get a local crew trained in this new method before I can use SABS.  In the meantime, if anyone knows of a SABS crew that will travel in the Southeast, then I may get to use it sooner than later.

I live in AZ and have seen several of the SABS projects in the Valley of the Sun.  From what I have seen, it looks like a great system, however the direction of the company seems to be to share this great technology with third world countries rather than expanding in the USA!  Of course, when our current administration gets through, the USA will be a third world country and then we will qualify

Any updates on SABS? Not using steel mesh and such a thin layer of fiber cement is quite different than most SCIP/CIC manufacturers.

What size mesh are you guys looking to use?  Would it be something with wider openings or something more fine?  Stainless Steel?

http://www.wiremesh.com/measure_wire_cloth.htm

Found some good information here on measuring the wire mesh and deciding what size exactly you might need to do a certain job.  Let me know the results of this and what wire mesh is used as thats the decision I am looking to make right about now.

J

I should mention that one builder recommended using CIC in post and beam construction. Ie, use concrete posts and steel or concrete beams, then use thin foam with a thin fiber concrete layer on each side for non-structural curtain walls. This design is particularly well suited to hot climates where you want large overhangs or verandas (since you need posts and beams anyway).

This is also interesting - creates an interior fire rated coating over foam (ICF or foam boards). No wallboard needed.

http://gigacrete.com/products/plastermax-3/

Furring refers to the backing surface, the process of installing it, and may also refer to the strips themselves.

Was very impressed with this system when I ran across it at a green building show in phoenix however as my research of SABS continued I was shocked to find out that many customers who have built with SABS are continually having problems.  Finally having some homes/buildings that have been through 2-5 years of life many of the problems are coming to the surface.  1. extensive cracking of the surface of the structures. 2. unrepairable leaks. 3. STRATA certifies its own buildings, (of course strata certifies each building it sells or designs but when issues come up they continually blame the contractor).  How can the owner/manufacturer of a technology have an un-objective opinon on its buildings.  I would like to see some third party evaluations and inspections or some liability on Strata on its system.  4. ICC certification has been expired for years.

As I continue to do reseach on this interesting system I continue to find nothing but problems, issues and way too many references to legal action for my comfort! 

In hopes that I would get a different prespective, I spoke to a recent customer/homeowner who feels ripped off and taken advantage of.........

Its too bad.....I had high hopes for this product.