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lambabbey
 Basic Member
 Posts:148
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| 15 May 2009 12:05 AM |
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Jesse:
Thanks for the recommendation. I've checked the Unilux UltraTherm 0.7 windows out and I think they're the direction I'm going to go with the new house. I'll be using the 0.21 (R-4.8) / SHGC 0.58 windows for everything facing South and the 0.12 (R-8.1) / SHGC 0.47 windows for the rest of the house. Those are the best numbers I've seen yet, plus the windows look beautiful and well-made, too. I like their look and design even better than the Optiwin windows you'd mentioned.
I do think quite highly of the Fibertec windows, too. Steven Hall at Fibertec has been an ace to work with as well as very responsive and helpful. I'd seriously consider the Fibertecs if they could get their efficiency numbers the same as Unilux. Right now though, I'm leaning toward the Unilux just because of the R-8.1 and high SHGC values. I also really like the solid wood interior, rather than just wood cladding.
For the record, the Unilux priced out about 20% higher than the closest Fibertec windows. They're not cheap.
John |
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| John A Gasbarre<br>Lamb Abbey Orchards<br>Union, ME 04862<br>[email protected]<br> |
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jonr
 Senior Member
 Posts:5341
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| 15 May 2009 06:32 AM |
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IMO, if you are going to super insulate, you should look at shuttered windows and be very concerned about air infiltration (maybe seal with a little spray in foam).
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lambabbey
 Basic Member
 Posts:148
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| 15 May 2009 06:56 AM |
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Jonr:
We'll be sealing the hell out of this house, and going with a Venmar HEPA 4100 ERV as the air exchanger. The goal all along as been to get as close to a classic Passivhaus as we can in the way of insulation and energy efficiency, however we're allowing ourselves a number of indulgences that wouldn't allow this house to qualify as one, if for no other reason from a philosophical standpoint. Also, the house and view face North, so the orientation is already a limiting factor. To compensate somewhat, we're going to take advantage of the back of the house facing South by installing a solar awning which will partially shade the Southern windows that would otherwise benefit from shutters.
John
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| John A Gasbarre<br>Lamb Abbey Orchards<br>Union, ME 04862<br>[email protected]<br> |
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pringstrom
 New Member
 Posts:19
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| 15 May 2009 09:28 AM |
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www.seriouswindows.com offers insulated fiberglass framed windows with a ratings of R-11, R-9 and R-7 with center of glass ratings of R-20.
www.consERV.com is my recommendation for an ERV system. These are state-of-the-art systems that use an engineered nanotechnology polymer instead of paper to separate the air flows. |
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lambabbey
 Basic Member
 Posts:148
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| 15 May 2009 04:01 PM |
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Pringstrom:
I checked out the Serious Windows. They're intriguing, but I'm going to stick with the Unilux for a couple of reasons: they've got a solid wood interior and their SHGC numbers are over twice that of the Serious Windows. It's not just R-value I'm after, but a combination of a great R-value, a solid wood interior (ideally, not wood cladding) and a high SHGC. The Unilux I'll be using have a SHGC of 0.58 for the windows that will be facing South; the rest are all 0.47. By comparison, the highest end Serious Windows have a SHGC somewhere between 0.20 and 0.26, which is pretty unimpressive for Solar Heat Gain. Plus, they have no interior wood option. Bottomline, they just don't cut it for me, regardless of their great R-value.
Next to the Unilux, the Optiwin are the closest I've seen to an acceptable alternative without being priced into the stratosphere--although they're close.
Thanks for pointing these windows out though.
John
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| John A Gasbarre<br>Lamb Abbey Orchards<br>Union, ME 04862<br>[email protected]<br> |
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MBURR
 New Member
 Posts:11
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| 15 May 2009 04:08 PM |
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THE BEST SHGC DEPENDS ON THE CLIMATE YOU LIVE INT NORTHERN CLIMATES SHOULD HAVE HIGHER SHGC - SOUTHERN CLIMATES REQUIRE LOWER SHGC.
Solar Heat Gain Coefficient (SHGC) The SHGC is the fraction of incident solar radiation admitted through a window, both admitted through a window, both directly transmitted, and absorbed and subsequently released inward. SHGC is expressed as a number between 0 and 1. The lower a window's solar heat gain coefficient, the less solar heat it transmits.
Northern Climate: To reduce heating, select the highest SHGC you can find (usually 0.30-0.60 for the U-factor ranges required in colder climates) so that winter solar gains can offset a portion of the heating energy need. If cooling is a significant concern, select windows with a SHGC less than 0.55. Use RESFEN to understand trade-offs.
North/Central Climate: If you have significant air conditioning costs or summer overheating problems, look for SHGC values of 0.40 or less. If you have moderate air conditioning requirements, select windows with a SHGC of 0.55 or less. While windows with lower SHGC values reduce summer cooling and overheating, they also reduce free winter solar heat gain. Use a computer program such as RESFEN to understand heating and cooling trade-offs.
South/Central Climate: If you have moderate air conditioning requirements, select windows with a SHGC of 0.55 or less. While windows with lower SHGC values reduce summer cooling and overheating, they also reduce free winter solar heat gain. Use a computer program such as RESFEN to understand heating and cooling trade-offs.
Southern Climate: A low SHGC is the most important window property in warm climates. Select windows with a SHGC less than 0.40.
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| Matthew Burr<br>Buyer - Windows and Doors<br>Village Home Center /dba Cooper Building Materials<br>Hot Springs Village, AR 71909<br>Email: [email protected] |
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lambabbey
 Basic Member
 Posts:148
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| 15 May 2009 04:12 PM |
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Exactly, MBURR.
And I'm on the Coast of Maine, where a high SHGC is what we're after.
John
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| John A Gasbarre<br>Lamb Abbey Orchards<br>Union, ME 04862<br>[email protected]<br> |
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lambabbey
 Basic Member
 Posts:148
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| 15 May 2009 05:31 PM |
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Pringstrom:
I checked out the website for the ConsERV you mentioned. The website is pretty useless at providing information about any specific models. Not a good sign. Do you rep these yourself?
John
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| John A Gasbarre<br>Lamb Abbey Orchards<br>Union, ME 04862<br>[email protected]<br> |
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ICFconstruction
 Veteran Member
 Posts:1324

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| 15 May 2009 07:52 PM |
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I met a bigwig of H window, he wanted an ICF house in Ashland WI. We talked a lot about his windows and I checked them out. Impressive.
ICFs here in MN add less than 5% to the build cost. |
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| Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net |
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pringstrom
 New Member
 Posts:19
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| 15 May 2009 08:53 PM |
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I don't rep ConsERV and I agree their website isn't the best, but their polymer membrane is engineered not to let water molecules through and they don't need a defrost cycle. They are about $1K. |
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lambabbey
 Basic Member
 Posts:148
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| 16 May 2009 06:55 AM |
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Pringstrom:
They'd do a much better job selling them if they actually showed one on their website and provided some specs.
John
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| John A Gasbarre<br>Lamb Abbey Orchards<br>Union, ME 04862<br>[email protected]<br> |
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djschrall
 New Member
 Posts:38
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| 17 May 2009 11:25 PM |
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Posted By lambabbey on 05/15/2009 4:01 PM Pringstrom:
I checked out the Serious Windows. By comparison, the highest end Serious Windows have a SHGC somewhere between 0.20 and 0.26, which is pretty unimpressive for Solar Heat Gain. Plus, they have no interior wood option. Bottomline, they just don't cut it for me, regardless of their great R-value.
John
John, I beg to differ. I have received a list of over 50 glazing possibilities from Serious windows with many of them being U<0.2 and SHGC>0.50. I will probably use them on a Passive solare project soon. Perhaps you can call them in Boulder and get the complete info. Dave
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lambabbey
 Basic Member
 Posts:148
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| 18 May 2009 12:00 AM |
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Dave:
No need to beg.
I'm referring specifically to what they refer to as their "ultimate in energy-efficient windows," namely their 1125's. Take a look at this PDF. It clearly states in the technical specs they provide that the SHGC for these windows is between 0.20 and 0.26. Sure they've got windows with a U-factor of below 0.20. Most of the major players do. Same with having a SHGC above 0.50. But can they make a window with great numbers for both? The Unilux I'm going with have a U-factor of 0.12 AND a SHGC of 0.47. Optiwin makes something with even better numbers. What does Serious Windows make that's comparable?
Let me know, would you? I'd appreciate it.
John
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| John A Gasbarre<br>Lamb Abbey Orchards<br>Union, ME 04862<br>[email protected]<br> |
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djschrall
 New Member
 Posts:38
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| 18 May 2009 08:29 AM |
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John,
If you want to send me your email address I will send you a scanned copy of the window options I have received. My contact there is Dennis Bartolo: 303 530 1150 x241. When I told him about the need to tune windows to orientation, he was quite enthusiastic and provided me the aforementioned data.
I have seen the standard 2 page flyer for their 725, 925 and 1125 series windows like the one in your PDF. They do a lot more by using lowE and suspended films in a variety of configurations. One example is with heat mirror HM88(2 sheets) argon gas for their 925 window. U=0.141(R7.4), SHGC=0.504. I count 7 other configurations on this list with U<0.2 and SHGC>0.5. Let me know if you want this data from me.
Dave |
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lambabbey
 Basic Member
 Posts:148
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| 18 May 2009 08:44 AM |
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Dave:
If they've got something equivalent (or better) than the Unilux I referenced, I'd be interested in knowing about them. But as I said earlier, I just don't believe they do. Their website gives you a range of U-factors and SHGCs for each series of windows, without letting you know which is associated with which. And then they complicate this further by showing you great numbers in their 'Glass Packages,' which refer solely to the glass itself without the frame. You're forced to call these folks to have them clarify. It's clever marketing, but a bit misleading.
I'm going with the Unilux mostly for their efficiency, but I really like how the look and construction of their windows as well. The furthest Serious Windows goes with wood is to offer a wood laminate.
Do send your data though, if you don't mind. Thanks.
John
P.S. My e-mail address is in the signature file below.
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| John A Gasbarre<br>Lamb Abbey Orchards<br>Union, ME 04862<br>[email protected]<br> |
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Jesse Thompson
 New Member
 Posts:89
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| 18 May 2009 09:16 AM |
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Other real issue is that Serious Windows gets their values through Heat Mirror film, not glass. There are advantages to Heat Mirror (light weight, lighter hardware, etc), but there are real disadvantages as well (durability of film, optical quality over time). |
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| Jesse Thompson<br>Kaplan Thompson Architects<br>http://www.kaplanthompson.com/<br>Portland, ME<br><br>Beautiful, Sustainable, Attainable |
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lambabbey
 Basic Member
 Posts:148
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| 18 May 2009 09:18 AM |
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Jesse:
Great point. Thanks for bringing it up.
John |
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| John A Gasbarre<br>Lamb Abbey Orchards<br>Union, ME 04862<br>[email protected]<br> |
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ADC
 New Member
 Posts:15
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| 02 Jun 2009 02:56 PM |
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Posted By lambabbey on 05/15/2009 12:05 AM Thanks for the recommendation. I've checked the Unilux UltraTherm 0.7 windows out and I think they're the direction I'm going to go with the new house. I'll be using the 0.21 (R-4.8) / SHGC 0.58 windows for everything facing South and the 0.12 (R-8.1) / SHGC 0.47 windows for the rest of the house. Those are the best numbers I've seen yet, plus the windows look beautiful and well-made, too. I like their look and design even better than the Optiwin windows you'd mentioned.
Odd, I checked NFRCs website and the numbers best listed for Unilux is U-Value .22 and SHGC .25. |
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lambabbey
 Basic Member
 Posts:148
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| 02 Jun 2009 04:02 PM |
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ADC:
The particular Unilux UltraTherm 0.7 windows I referenced aren't up on the NFRC site yet. They'll be up in late July / early August. These particular windows are new for Unilux and are currently undergoing testing with the NFRC.
You may find this info to be of interest.
John |
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| John A Gasbarre<br>Lamb Abbey Orchards<br>Union, ME 04862<br>[email protected]<br> |
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rancov
 New Member
 Posts:23
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| 15 Jun 2009 08:47 AM |
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Best is a relative term. First, you need to understand the features of a window that define it energy efficiency. For a better explanation see SHGC, U-Value and Visble Light Transmission. You need to understand how these factors intermingle to govern the interior atmosphere. For instance If you focus solely on SHGC, ou may select a makeup that leaves the interior too dark and causing you to keep the lights on durrig the day. Come to understand the light to solar gain ration. Second, visti the Efficient Window Collarborative. They will have more great information and a directory to guide you to the various manufactureres in the country. Lastly, research thouroughly recoommended installation methods. They vary depending on the area of the country and the exterior finsihes and structure of the home. Understand which is best for your situation. DO NOT SKIMP on installation. If you allow drafts to penetrate the house you may also allow water in and that can destroy windows and the energy efficiency of them. |
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| Randy |
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