Posted By zehboss on 02 Feb 2012 06:25 AM
Hugh,

You can build a high internal thermal mass, thermal climatic averaged house with nighttime cooling and an ERV system that can bypass at night and thermally exchange during the day. A dehumidification system should be part of the design. No direct solar gain, large overhangs and a cool roof, (radiant based steel). Well ventilate under roof.

You should also build out of local bulk materials. An example, volcanic pumas should be readily available and cheap. Pumice is an all-natural, local, sustainable material that provides R-2 per inch and is much cheaper than other available insulation materials.

Such a utility free home will save you $100,000 in reduced utilities over the next 30 years.If you are interested in building a low cost, self-cooled, zero energy home at a cost no greater than a custom home in the area contact me at [email protected] and we can help you ideas and or execution.

Brian

so to be clear, are we talking about insulating with wild cats or tennis shoes?  ;) {sorry, couldn't resist}

I have never been, but I think they call them, Grass Huts...ehheheeeee

Dot hot rock, bun ya feet brudda...

Using natural materials requires not being blinded by the status quo created by vested interest, corporatist and lobbyists. Being blind to the best solutions is being a lemming running of the cliff. Have a nice ride to the bottom as your offerings become obsolete. The trip is great until you go splat. Thinking outside the box and embracing positive change with better outcomes is beyond most lemmings.

Brian

I have been on the cutting edge for 35 years...it cuts deep my friend. Best to join a men's only drum group. It is not just for native Americans you know:-).

Badger,

There are many examples of self-heated, self-cooled, and sustainable buildings built since the 1970s oil crisis that were state of the art at that time. Pushing beyond that paradigm is what I assume you mean by leading edge technology. I am glad that is where you have dwelled and look forward to you promoting those ideas instead of putting them down. I am interested in the ideas you have that lead to a more sustainable and fruitful existence with greater wealth retention for the occupants of the buildings we build. The industry needs more people that push better options.

Unfortunately corporate vested interests, less protected technology, change avoidance, codes designed to protect lobbyist, cheap oil and power, a lack of people offering solutions and protecting the status quo industries have made adoption very slow.

Brian

Posted By BadgerBoilerMN on 18 Apr 2012 02:32 PM
If you want live in a cave maybe. If you have glass and passive solar gains, the controls get more elaborate, expensive and like thermal mass reach a point of diminishing returns. There are few absolutes in this world though the idea is ideal.

The more perfect the climate the less you need to mess with it.

interesting
but

is there a more definitive ROI/ or "greenness"
to clarify for the one with the original Q ?

Seems D1 is more cost effective in many (10+) years, but how much more or less can one be shown in dollars and the "leather" of lifestyle choices...?

There IS a lot of sense to some higher mass, as we bounce a zone 5.1/2 right in my county to 50-deg Jan always, to this winter GT Loops fired in COOLING MODE on the 80-deg days 2 weeks ago ( 37 this morning ).
-
I have noted on any air-conditioning without controls on 'condenser' conditions in cold to hot to cold jumping ambients, and risked popping compressors - residentially  not generally having Head-Pressure controllers on GTHP, unless I T-in as for cold starts with HW and Radiant..
 But too
the SEER (salesy eer) could have been near 40+ and over that making HW instantly on demand,with GT loop pumps off-line at that time and then back on for Air Cooling, the efficiency is very very much higher than any air-source, but not as high as a mass not needing intermittent cooling... yes/no ???

I mean all that the mass with gt loop swings can be a factor-
but what is a lees graphical answer to ROI and more than avoiding 'the mess'...?

 ROI's then, est.

-would imagine some real  "BEST MASS" could be Lifestle-Ambient-Avg-Computed  (I saw some graphics, thanks..

I have a reference by customer:
The customer 5 ft under ground in 1600 sq ft 5-bay car wash building (similarity with extended side wall "trunk-halves" like trees are created at the curve) had a 2.0 GTHP and up-sized to a 30k (some 3.0 sizing) compressor on well water 52, cools like any 3-ton air unit, net to net...and runs it at a slow 340 cfm/ton for HRV effect and the spill-over goes int a back enclosed small POOL in ~ 20x30 half below grade.  NO SUPPLEMENTAL HTG. has only DeSuperheat HW and elect HW his lowest bill with all minimal charges, is only $40 different than the highs...2010, so might be $50 diff. for highs, but he can INSTANTLY control dehumidification or swing heating, etc.

Your goals are noble but premise flawed. I cut my teeth on berm homes, super-insulated and such back when Jimmy Carter tried to "save the planet". The result was much human suffering.

Corporation do not drive markets. By definition a market is drive by demand...that would be human demand. The Greenest people are stingy, naturally following there own instincts and self interest. This is the best use of any resource.

As for this particular link, I think the planet will not be saved, even a little bit, buy improving residential comfort systems in one of the mildest climates on the planet.

I personally love to use natural and local resources whenever possible and spent some time with FL Wright's work. Unfortunately, Wright's buildings were notorious for being uncomfortable and dysfunctional. I don't believe we have to compromise comfort for any higher goal. It is through economy and standardization that we all are able to afford nearly perfect creature comfort and safe construction practice.

For the home builder:
Was ther any comparative sense?
Any sufficient answer to combining higher mass with some controlled cooling that offers the 100% water heating at the same time is what ?
in regards to air:HtP which makes no HW?

What of the AIRTap and GE or Whirlpool standing "basement-air" Dehumidifier/cooler for a higher-mass construction of 1200 to 1600 living sq ft... ? too noisy on a slab in a vented closet -mechanical room?... maybe as working in a way with ambient air filtered into a mechanical room in less cooling needed days?

GTHP with Priority Full size desuperheatin Heat Reclaim to HW IN Cooling modes and heating, especially when no or so little heat is needed, can be on a stand above a 35 gal HW tank, and the compressor is sized 2-ton or 2.1/2 ton for the HW demands, but allows any spin-off for decent radiant floor minimal or complete application(s) as well.