Why do freezer doors only have one seal/gasket?

My refrigerator has a single, continuous seal mounted all around the door.  My home's entry door has has a narrow, compressible gasket mounted on the three jambs.  The bottom of the solid wood door has leading and trailing sweep type fins.  The gasket located on the jambs and the fins on the bottom of the door makes them less noticeable.

I think the entry door would be more air tight with a continuous gasket.  I think the fins on the bottom of the door do not accomplish much.

I am hesitant to locate the gasket on the threshold.  I wonder about how much abuse it could take from shoes.  Installing the gasket on the door jamb and threshold would be more aesthetically pleasing than on the door.  So if I can find a gasket that can take the abuse from tripping, then the problem with aethetics has been won.

In high wind areas, the threshold step up would be a trip hazard for people entering the house.  For low-wind areas, the door opens inward so the step up would be on the inside of the house.  I think a continuous gasket on the door jamb and threshold would be just as effective regardless whether the door swung in or out.

Whether a double or triple gasket is possible would depend upon the depth of the mounting surface.  I think multiple, continuous gaskets would be more effective than a single gasket because of the dead air spaces between the gaskets.  However, a wider gasket may be more attractive than multiples.

From talking to door companies, I have learned that a door that swings out is less likely to leak than a door that swings in, especially in high wind areas.  This also includes double doors whether there is a center stile or not.  I have seen this demonstrated and it made a believer out of me.

As you can see, I am still trying to work my way through this thought process.  From time to time I have clients that want to save all the energy they can.  Some even have the budget to do so.

Can a thicker, better insulated door be designed with a continuous gasket on the threshold and three door jambs?  Can door hardware be found or custom made for the thick door?  Your thoughts will be appreciated.

@Alton
As for customizing the jambs, header and sill it should not be to much of a problem to form a continuous gasket. Little more time to think about it and find all the parts I will create a 3D model. Air tight homes seem to be the future.... If that is the direction than there is a very good chance the threshold of the future will be different.   Watch your Step

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I think it can be done with (1) if the correct gasket is chosen and detailed correctly .... if you want a high R-valued custom door and frame with many options of multiple gaskets, door thickness expect to pay thousands of dollars and that is fine if you have money to burn. The salesman will certainly love you for it.

An off the shelf metal or wood door is rather cheap and doors such as these would have to work with a single gasket. Are you going to spend thousands of dollars on an entry door in your garage when a off the shelf metal or wood door will do the job of creating a air tight entry door?

Why do home owners spending thousands upon thousands of dollars building there home tight and there entrance doors are leaking more air than all the walls and window combined in there build?

Why would I want to pay thousand of dollars for custom entry door with multiple gaskets when (1) will work just fine at getting a air tight seal ..... Your higher R-value doors will most likely have multiple gaskets but whats your ROI?

It's just a freaken Gasket!  Is it just madness or greed .... maybe its both?


Anyhow here is a video showing how to DIY your own refrigerator gaskets ..... By no means am I suggesting using refrigerator gaskets (might work though) its just a good example to put forward.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj8vayNmZOk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YwhuutTsos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YW1EGEh4tY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUHL93mFvmw

you know I am a firm believer that if you want something done right you need to do it yourself, no disrespect to hammer and hand they accomplished more than I have at this point but I would not bother using that door if it fell off a truck in front of my driveway, I may sell it to the OP at 1/2 price thou :) all the Passive House examples I seen, the off shore ones I mean, al the jambs, window or door regardless of finish type of construction etc they were all some sort of split jamb with a serious thermal break in the middle, all bolted to the inside while the door is suspended in the middle of the insulation, I did not see that in those pictures, sure looks like a nice upgrade for my current POS 1950 photocopy not thought into house, but I did not see a Pasiv haus door there, I came across some other videos of theirs and they seem to share the same pattern, overpriced fancy stuff out of a catalog, if it does anything good towards efficiency I don't get it, saw they were pursuing some certs not sure if they got them, point is anything is possible, doing it a cost sensitive is another. Anybody can order crap out of a catalog on an unlimited budget and if it don't work out so great well hope something better comes up next year and we'll do it all over again. but anyway I'll leave it at that. as for the door I haven't given it a lot of thought myself just got involved here since you all got together, here's a few musts in my book Door in the middle of the wall, which in itself requires a custom build depending what you chose to do for a wall esp passive house. Split jamb with a serious thermal break say at least 1 inch more the merrier foam like R6 and higher all around I actually like the triple seal Idea and having the air gaps kindof work like a triple pane, seals are not that expensive and a jamb with 2 other offsets is not that difficult to build. and the door itself needs to be a significant fraction of the wall R value, air tightness is great but putting a regular wood/metal door at R I don't know 4 on a R40+ wall you might as well piss in my cerios. like it has been mentioned same thought needs to be put in not just an outrageous price tag, at the end of the day wood foam seals are not that expensive and a good craftsman could put something together in a couple days, I just don't see the 10k anywhere, maybe in that fancy vacuum machine. George

Posted By ricky_005 on 18 Feb 2014 03:14 PM


Why would I want to pay thousand of dollars for custom entry door with multiple gaskets when (1) will work just fine at getting a air tight seal ..... Your higher R-value doors will most likely have multiple gaskets but whats your ROI?

It's just a freaken Gasket!  Is it just madness or greed .... maybe its both?

I agree that the pricing on these doors is ridiculous but the factor that is unchanging is that a single gasket CANNOT provide an adequate seal to reach Passive House blower door test results. Most new car doors (especially the luxury kind) have at least double sometimes triple door seals, but I have yet to see a new luxury car just have one door seal. It comes back to the fact to have an air tight door, double gaskets are used.

If you can design a house door with a single gasket and be airtight, you will hold the market share on that design because I have yet to see it. The only doors that I have seen that had single gaskets were the ones that leaked a lot of air.

Posted By Alton on 18 Feb 2014 01:40 PM


From talking to door companies, I have learned that a door that swings out is less likely to leak than a door that swings in, especially in high wind areas.  This also includes double doors whether there is a center stile or not.  I have seen this demonstrated and it made a believer out of me.

Generally speaking, an out-swing French Door would seal better than an in-swing French Door? Is it more difficult to install an out-swing door?

Do you think the Hammer & Hand Passive Door is air tight with the standard door gaskets spliced in the top corners and a typical threshold?

Or

Even the one which you received a quote for $10,000.00 dollars

also the other thing that was not brought up what kind of wall are you looking to put this on, timber, brick, what thickness, how much insulation?

it seems to me that your best bet is to find a good local carpenter rather than a ready to buy door, unless you got it in you to build it yourself, when you get into those price tags I could dam near put together a semiprofessional woodworking shop on that budget, that is not to say you need to take it that far.

I was up last night messing around on that THERM software I love it, put your thoughts on paper model it and have it built, it will end up the best door you can get and at a reasonable cost just make sure to report the outcome.

Posted By ricky_005 on 18 Feb 2014 10:07 PM
Do you think the Hammer & Hand Passive Door is air tight with the standard door gaskets spliced in the top corners and a typical threshold?

Or

Even the one which you received a quote for $10,000.00 dollars

Hammer & Hand sells/designs two types of doors. One is a standard door (not Passive House approved) while the other is a Passive House Certified door. The latter door needs to achieve an air tightness so that is can pass the < 0.60 ACH @ 50Pa blower door test.

Once again, I am not defending the price or their design methodology. One can only go by the testing which shows that doors with single gaskets cannot achieve PH standards. Nobody has been able to do it as of yet. Double or triple gaskets with multiple latching is what makes a door or window airtight. I have yet to see a PH Certified operable window with just a single gasket. All PH certified operable windows have double or triple gaskets with multiple latches that pull the window shut on all sides.

Lbear,

Some homeowners will pay big bucks for a decorative entry door and stylish glass to go with it.  Air tightness or R-value never enters the conversation of which door to order.  The most that I have heard anyone pay for stained solid wood door and glass is $40,000.  I would prefer to spend much less and get a better insulated door.  But to each his own.

Do you think that 3 gaskets would be better than one wide compressed gasket mounted on a wider lip of the door jamb?  From looking at car doors, I got the impression that multiple gaskets were installed because of the small spaces available.  I am holding out for a single wide gasket that can be compressed because I think it will not be as noticeable.  One advantage that I see to double or triple gaskets is that they also create dead air spaces that dampen sound and possibly conduction.

I know your goal is finding an Efficient Door for a reasonable price like everyone else ..... If you are looking for a Passive House Certified door for a fair price you wont find one. This is why I sorta hijacked the thread to discussed how can we build/DIY one which will give you a real return on your investment.

Air infiltration should be your top priority .... Forget about R-Rating for a moment.... if you have air infiltration at your doors it is robbing you of your R-Value you paid a premium for .... Your envelope/investment has been compromised.

As for the 50Pa blower door test which I don't know much about the technical side of but most quality casement windows test up to 50Pa. I was told by a salesman a window testing up 50Pa which is equivalent to something like a category 4 or 5 hurricane ..... My doors when I have the custom jambs and threshold built if they can handle 30Pa I will be thrilled to death? because I know my home wont wont be exposed to such a event. Tornado possibly, but if it wants to rob my home of some conditioned air through my door gaskets during a really bad storm I wont complain to much. But overall day to day there should be no air bypassing the gaskets other than when I open the door.

Example
If you build a home to passive standards with R60 walls and Roof ..... and some of the best windows available. The doors you purchased has a R-10 rating but there is a problem ..... Your doors are leaky .... What was the propose of paying for a R-10 door when cold air is bypassing your R-10 door. I know Passive House Certified doors supposedly passed the test but I'm having a hard time believing the Hammer & Hand Passive House Doors could pass anything using standard door gasket sealing methods. Look at the Pics ...... I'm not convinced at all.....Would like to see how they setup the threshold. I'm sure its eat up with air leaks as well.

Alton yes having a double or triple gasket very well may cut down on noise transmission and act as you say like a multi pane window. Add up the 1/8" gap around the door to see what the square footage is. If you have money to burn it would be a cool way to go. But if there comes a time when you want to sell and move on you will end up losing your shirt as it is impossible to retrieve any such investments which where overpriced. (Assuming Store bought)

enough with the Hammer an hand that door is a solid thermal bridge right off the bat before you even get into air tightness and R values,

if you are going to put that much thought into an insulated airtight envelope an R10 door seems flimsy to me even air tight, fridge doors have a magnetic strip and some of the hardware on that website featured that, Interesting concept, a wide contact of that kind should give you a good seal, and like it was mentioned three of them is even better counting the airspace between seals, seals are cheap and simple to implement, I want more than one.

also it has been brought up the outrageous amounts some would spend on looks without any consideration and that goes further than doors, so why not 3 seals why not R20+ door, again goes back to the rest of the build, are you building a passive house or just looking for a really good door and this is the best known?

Posted By georgec on 18 Feb 2014 11:35 PM
also it has been brought up the outrageous amounts some would spend on looks without any consideration and that goes further than doors, so why not 3 seals why not R20+ door, again goes back to the rest of the build, are you building a passive house or just looking for a really good door and this is the best known?

Most Americans would purchase a new car before they would a Box Store 3 seal R20 Passive House Certified door.

Sorry could not pass on that one .....Hehehe



If you have the right tools and know how, you could easily build it yourself and have relatively nice investment that you may see a return within your lifetime.

again I am not most, and actually SUVs are more popular funny thing is after all this conversation I went around and had a closer look at my back door I put it in a few years back wife was bugging me, its a cheapie lowes may have even been on sale at the time to this day she still bitches I could not find a cheaper one, thou it feels warmer than my wall, ahhh if I only knew than, I bought what I could afford I feel like setting this place on fire when I am done with it, and there are millions like it just the other night came across a similar build on a thread in this forum, and most people call them a ranch they should be relabeled "Stable" or something along those lines.

so why not put some thought into it EPS is good for about 6? four inches is R20+ more than likely in my case I will endup building one I got my hand into just about everything I own, actually I think all of it and than some, to each is their own, still looking at Ideas I'll find some time and draw one up, haven't made it that far into my project yet.

but anyone should be able to accomplish this even if you need to hire labor, like all novelties they are imperfect and yet come at a premium,

Lbear please post details about the wall you are looking to install such a door on, let's discuss specifics, what exactly do you have in mind? you got me intrigued this will be good practice for when I get around to mine. any links or pictures of what you would want if the box store carried it?

I know you mentioned wood, minimal glass if any, some dimensions, you obviously looked into it a bit I am more curious about the seal details and hinges, I hear some special type is used in PH

hey here's a thought what's that dam store's name Ikeea, its a sweedish chain I think, I know it's a long shot but it may be your best bet if a ready made is what you want, doubt they have one in stock but I wonder if you could order it through them who knows, the wife made me put her office together last winter with stuff from that store not saying I like what she bought but its a chain that originates somewhere in the Scandinavia, and PH is pretty popular worth a look into it

Scandinavia loves glue, saw dust, and thin plastic to hide the glue and saw dust .....Heheh

Ah, if there were only a doormaker which utilized vacuum superinsulation or aerogel panels to make quality green doors. I'd call it.....Green Door.

I'll accept my usual 5% of the stock for the idea, thanks.

Posted By georgec on 19 Feb 2014 12:31 AM

Lbear please post details about the wall you are looking to install such a door on, let's discuss specifics, what exactly do you have in mind? you got me intrigued this will be good practice for when I get around to mine. any links or pictures of what you would want if the box store carried it?

Here is a link to a PH suitable door. It has double gaskets:

Arlington Passive House

The door has to have multiple locking mechanisms/pins that will pull it shut and make it nice and air tight. This can only be accomplished in multiple locking pins. If the door is not pulled tight against the seals, it will leak air.

A Nice simple design here .....External door on a ocean vessel.  Could easily be duplicated in a wood shop.

Custom double seal jamb and header if you notice one of the jamb seals continues across the threshold. The door thickness appears to be minimal with single rabbit.



Door swings outward which for a home would be odd. If it is reversed to swing in, threshold seal will be exposed to wind driven rain which would be a major problem.

When I first started seeing doors swing out, I, too, thought it was odd.  But after spending some time in high wind areas of Florida, I saw that doors swinging out was quite common on new homes that I reviewed.