I read the price estimates given in another topic($8-$10 per sqft). If these prices could be had in Colorado, ICF's could compete. The prices that I've seen are much higher.


Yup, I casually asked 1 contractor for a rough cost, and his response was $15 per sqft of wall. Now that may have included the footer(hopefully), but that kind of money is double what SIPS would cost, and triple the cost of sticks.

I do understand, that everything seems to cost more here.

I would love to find an ICF contractor whose pricing was $10(per sqft wall) or less out here!

i can see the benifit in florida where hurricanes are a problem. in most of the country you cant add those cost reductions to your calculations. in my part of the country we dont have hurricanes or earthquakes or termites. you will not see a reduction in insurance rates.
here you are forced to compare energy costs alone. $45 per month average heating and cooling costs are achievable with conventional construction and with sip walls. the house i live in now averages $47 per month. 4300 square foot including full basement and air source heat pump. 
i will agree that in some places icf will be the way to go. here it is not. its hard to find people to do the work and they reflect it in their bids. i guess me arguing about icf benifits on an icf website is akin to standing up in church and saying the emperor has no clothes.

Very true. ICF can be very situational. It is perfect match for my area so I tend to be a big proponent. I looked at SIPs but was concerned about it's lifespan in this area.

 

  Ren, Here in northern Michigan we go from furnace going wide open to A/C with not much neutral ground.  I keep track of a few homes we have built and I can offer you the this. One is a 3000 Sq ft ranch built in 2000 that has averages 500 gallons of propane a year that heats the house plus water, range, and clothes dryer. It is a couple with three small children. They have weathered several severe storms including one tornado near miss. They say " you have to look out the window to see what the weather is doing because you can't tell otherwise".  Another is a great custom home that was built in 1999. A 3600 sq ft two story that has two round turrets. It looks like a miniature castle. The couple that live there have two children. The wife works for a local propane supplier.  It has been the lowest cost per square foot in propane usage of any home they supply since they moved in. In a typical house that we bid on (usually 1500 to 3500 sq  ft) we are within $3,000 to $5,000 higher than stick framing. As a rule, given our climate, our customers can expect to recover the difference within 2 to 3 years. All the while enjoying all of the additional benefits of living in a comfortable, safe, quiet, more luxurious home.  Efficiency is important and with that you can get so much more. There are not a lot of products that can offer as much as icf construction. Take care. Virgil 

Thanks for your input Virgil.

Well I can see your point at $15.00 per sq. ft. but lets make sense of this: Your saying stick cost $5.00 per sq. ft. which is equal to us here in Mi, SIPs is $7.50 a sq. ft. their, probably $6.50 here, and ICF $15.00 a sq. ft their and $9.00 a sq. ft here, as we can see the specialty trades are charging more their due to demand I suspect. The cost here in MI is lower than the Southern states due to Material cost, concrete here is $67.50 yd. (3500 psi pea stone mix w/mid range) I'm curious to the cost of concrete in Colorado, and also ICF per sq. ft.?

Many will pay extra for an ICF home just because they want the features and they can afford them. Safety, quiet, efficient. ICF is similar to granite and other higher end amenities. I want them so I will pay for them thinking. To tap the mainstream market it has to make financial sense (better product for equal or less). The challenge is in the mainstream market is the average time of ownership of a home. Isn't the average less than 7 years? How can you justify a payback in that time period? Even if it can be justified on a monthly cash flow basis (increased mortgage vs. monthly savings) I'd think it would take longer than 7 years for a payback. Another key would be to show how ICF adds real value to the home at time of resale. As time goes on as people become more educated about home building methods and concerned about energy/safety I think it will but it is pretty early in that process for mainstream America.

Of course in certain regions such as FL it makes much more sense. But for the broader market where is the justification? And how does stick framing w/ spray foam insulation raise the bar for ICF in thermal performance? It seems the key to thermal performance is a better sealed envelope to minimize air leakage.

I live in MN and will be building 1 or 2 lake homes in 2007 and am in the preliminary process of deciding what/how to build and appreciate the input from guru's here.

Slenzen,
There are people in this world whose only standard in immediate cost. They will pay $5 for a pair of shoes that hurt their feet and wear them out in 4 months, and then buy another pair just like the first. They will not consider paying $20 for a pair of shoes that would last 20 months and not hurt their feet.
There are people in this world who are trying desperatly to own their own home and have very little money. Their only option is to buy the cheapest house for the least amount down and hope they can make the payments. The majority of the houses built in this country are built for that type of buyer. The builders use $5 faucets and 3/8" chip board and primer on the interior walls insteal of paint etc. In a year the house needs painting and new carpeting and in three years the Furnace and the AC are shot and in five years the roof is sagging and needs shingles.
If you cannot see value in building a better house for yourself then go with a stick frame.
Regards,
Joe

Slenzen
If you want to see value in a house go to Wait 15 seconds for the page to roll over and you will see the differance between block. stick over block and a real ICF house.
If you follow the links you will see a 30 yard dumpster that was picked up and thrown against the ICF house. It bounced.
Regards,
Joe

There are real numbers out there from a recent test. The EPA was testing it's software for qualifying homes for the federal tax reduction of $2000. Yes $2000 for building energy efficiently. Takes some of that extra cost you see from some builders and reduces it substantially. We don't find the huge differential between our ICF homes and the energy efficient wood frame homes. Maybe we need to make more money than we think we do. The EPA software found only a small differential between four energy efficiently built wood homes at 86% efficient versus the one ICF home with efficency at 86%. However, the EPA also found out their software didn't work on ICF. The monthly bill for a 5000 sf ICF home was $100 and for the four energy efficient wood frame the average monthly bill was between $500 and $600 a month. That's real savings. The article explaining all of this can be found at http://www.energywisestructures.com/sci_sav.html Homeowners can do a little research and find out what the real costs are from legitimate and practical situations. I for one tend not to trust the government studies as being accurate. I believe the failure of the EPA to get it right on this test substantiates the very reason I will continue to question the validity of the government studies.

Where's the link? I'd love to see that.