ICF with vinyl siding and no wrap - now leaks
Last Post 11 Jul 2007 01:36 PM by ICFfam. 32 Replies.
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ICFfamUser is Offline
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30 Jun 2007 08:58 AM
The house is being built in central Iowa.

I believe that aluminum flashing was used, though could be mistaken.

The sider tells me that he plans to pull the siding off of that back wall and just use house wrap up to the soffit. Any drawbacks to going this way versus cutting the flashing into the ICF? I am having some trouble getting him to commit to doing something around the windows. How hard should I push this? I didn't SEE any moisture around any of the windows when it poured so hard.


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30 Jun 2007 09:32 AM
Try contacting the guys at Ide Concrete Homes for possible advice. Call 515-306-3204 to talk with Bill or 515-771-5439 to talk with Jon. They are located in Johnston and have done a lot of concrete homes the last three years.


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01 Jul 2007 12:41 AM
Yeah, the IDE guys are really good to work with. I feel slightly bad, though, since they bid on my job and I didn't give them the work - sort of not right to go back there seeking advice.


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02 Jul 2007 08:13 PM
Don't feel too bad to call them. You will not be the first lost job to ask them for help. Quite often the low bids for a project are missing one or more elements of big picture. This may not be your case. They would be willing to speak with you about your current issues. Advice from an reputable source may make the timeliness of your repair well worth a swallow of pride. They are not the type to turn such a thing into a meal of crow!


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04 Jul 2007 12:41 PM
It is your home!!! Get help where available and resolve the issues. Let your subs know you are seeking advice to resolve the problems. All will get more knowledge for the future. It may cost a little now but better now than later. GR


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06 Jul 2007 06:56 PM
I've talked to the sider, who has committed to installing the required flashing bent into the foam at the tops of all the windows and doors over the protecto wrap and who has also committed to installing the required bent flashing over the wall areas that have a roof meeting them. He will do this, he says, if and only if I supply the flashing material and required sealant for it. I guess I am of the opinion that he should cover the cost of the flashing and sealant, but I am just happy to have a solution in sight.

I also spoke with Jonathan IDE from IDE Concrete Homes. He said that they had never used anything other than the Protecto over any flashing, but that his block doesn't have the integrated drain channels that the IntegraSpec block that I used has.

Jon also said that they never have done anything over the window and door openings more than what I had done with the Protecto.


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07 Jul 2007 01:10 AM
Glad to hear you a have resolution in sight. This is truly a lesson for all of about the importance of proper flashing. Management gurus, etc. like to talk in terms of achieving a win/win result rather than a win/lose result. I think you have a achieved a good minimal loss/minimal loss solution!



Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help!
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09 Jul 2007 08:38 AM

ICFfam,

This is what I did on my house.  The middle section of my house is two story and on each end is single story.  Both of the gable ends of the single story meet the foam of the middle second story.  After the roofing was applied with the proper step flashing and before the vinyl siding was applied, I took a circular saw and set it at a 45deg angle and cut a groove in the foam about 3" above the step flashing and above the flashing at the top of each window.  Then I unrolled some aluminum flashing and stuck it in the groove and bent it down over the step flashing so any water that gets behind the siding will run down the foam and hit the flashing that is inserted into the foam and then get directed over the flashing that the roofer applied.  This also will do the same above each window.  Any flashing that meets the foam must be inserted into the foam because water that runs down the foam will migrate into the joints of the block and will follow the joints down the wall eventually reaching an opening.  After all the flashing was applied, we had a couple of rains before the siding was on and we didn't have any leaks. 

trev



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09 Jul 2007 12:49 PM
Hey Trev -

It certainly sounds as if what you did is what should have been done on my place. The question at this point is who is ultimately responsible for fixing the problem. Although my sider had preliminarily indicated that he would take care of it, he is now angling for a way out. It is my position that he should tear off the siding that needs to be removed, flash as you did at these roof lines as well as above all windows and doors, and put everything back.

I have agreed to cover the cost of the flashing and Vulkem polyurethane sealant for the job, but don't feel as if I should be held liable for his failure to ensure proper flashing at the onset.


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10 Jul 2007 09:31 AM
ICFfam,
Flashing is not a siders issue in my opinion. Make this easy on your self, as you, the ultimately respondsible owner/contractor, can. As I said before, "be the solution".
Test the Vulkem on a piece of foam. I believe it will "eat" the foam. No good for your issues if you are contacting flashing to foam. Latex/water based products are the ticket.
Don't forget the webs in the forms can be used for fastening metal where needed.
GR


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10 Jul 2007 11:17 AM
I contacted Tremco about the Vulkem 116 product - they concur that it will eat the foam. They recommended a product called Dymonic FC. This continues to be a polyurethane sealant. Can anyone tell me a specific sealant that they have successfully used for this task?


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11 Jul 2007 10:14 AM
Wind-Lock 800-872-5625 has widow & door membrane flashing that sticks to foam. Check website.
Those other products I had mentioned wil work with proper install. GR


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11 Jul 2007 01:36 PM
It seems that one of the issues is the integrated "water channels" that the IntegraSpec block has. The use of P&S products doesn't have a way to overcome that detail that I've found at least.

Aluminum or some other flashing has to be cut into the face of the wall deeper than these integrated grooves of the foam. These grooves are about 1/4" to perhaps 3/8" of an inch deep. The question remains, I suppose, whether you have to or should stay away from the integrated plastic studs, which are 3/4" of recessed into the foam. If that is the case, it seems that the flashing should be cut in at a 45° angle upwards, about 13/16" or just enough to touch the top edge of the integrated studs without cutting into them. Not sure if it matters if they are cut into or not, though.


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