Posted By smartwall on 30 Apr 2014 09:09 AM
I'm in upstate NY. A 6' wall depending on corners would be around $9.75 sq ft. using helix

So I was basically in the correct range I originally stated: $10 - $15 per square foot.

Add complexity, 2-stories, and that price will go up from $10 sqft

You would be $14700 wrong on the high side. I don't know about you but that's a really big range. I stand what I said it was too high for me.

sw.....would that include rebar around the openings?

Posted By smartwall on 30 Apr 2014 05:24 PM
You would be $14700 wrong on the high side. I don't know about you but that's a really big range. I stand what I said it was too high for me.

The range is realistic based on what is out there. The location one is building in plays a role in the cost. A single story home with simple design will come in at $10 while a complex design with a heavy rebar schedule will come in towards the $15 range. Other people on the forum stated that they paid close to the $15 range, others have gone over, some have gone lower. That is why I said it was a general range.

That would include rebar for the lintels and the cost of the pump as well as bucks. Lbear I'm not going to argue the minutia of your pricing. The original question was for a contractor to give pricing on a job. Here in upstate NY we don't use heavy rebar schedules since the Adirondack Mountains are sitting on a mature tectonic plate if I remember my college geology. I just priced out a 2 story with walkout at 4200 sq ft of floor space and if I gave the customer your pricing I'd be shot.

Smartwall - what do you pay for concrete?

About $87 per yard for 3000lb

Thanks Smartwall.
To give some comparison, I pay $226.00 per meter for 30 MPa, 14 mm agg, 5-8 air and 1 litre per meter S.P. Pumping will add between 600 to 1200 per pour depending on reach and size of pour (600.00 minimum)
or $175.00 per yard of 4351 psi concrete, 5/8 agg. 3000 psi would be about $5.00 cheaper per yard.

Retail, if you don't have an account and history will be at least $20 per meter higher and often they just can't get it from the big guys so have to pay more.

I suspect at your rates, you also get labour a bit cheaper. Decent carpenters get between 25 and 45 per hour here. Entry level construction jobs start around 18.00.

Pumping averages $650 for my favorite company and for 45 an hour here you can get an out of work PHD. I get special pricing on the cc by guaranteeing a certain volume. Same thing, the average Joe isn't going to get the same rate but it's no where near your price. One thing you can do is increase the amount of fly ash that cuts the cost. I run 35% versus the average of 20% most mixes contain. Thank you coal fired power plants.

My engineer stated that the concrete mix for my ICF wall cannot have more than 25% Fly Ash. It states: max slump = 4.5" without plasticizer and 8" with plasticizer

That's true if you are using it in an exposed sidewalk where freeze thaw cycles will require the use of salt. You would never use that high an amount in a interior finished floor either since it doesn't finish well. Also it depends if you use F or C class fly ash and include silica fume. I almost always use Fritz Paks to adjust my slump as well as retarders, slump busters and accelerators. Never water.

I am having a house built in Cortland, NY. I am ready to go but am having trouble finding a builder. Can any of you guys point me in the right direction? It's a 2100 square foot house, cape style. I am just looking for the ICF  and concrete work. Thanks....

alphaorage, I sent you a private message with several contacts.

Interesting discussion here.... First, I would ask why someone would bother to build such a small residence with ICF. If you are simply building a small getaway, save your money. If you want a full time durable home to live in, build with ICF.
Be concious of your material bids, and monitor and account for all materials used in the build to assure that your contractor is not "slipping" some off the job. The costs of the ICF blocks will vary, and shipping plays a big role. There are several good blocks out there.... AMVIC/Quad-lock/BuildBlock/Nudura- fold for easy shipping/ and Logix- do not recommend due to waste because they are not "unisex".
Building with ICF will be at least 20-30% higher cost, but the rewards and benefits outweigh the drawbacks. Living in an ICF home is the difference between a Mercedes Benz and a Ford Focus. You do the math, and Good luck with your project.

Cal.....where do you come up with 20-30% higher cost? Everything I've read over the years it's not even close to that much.


Can anyone tell me a good ball park cost on a s/f basis what a 2x4 exterior wall would cost?

FBBP do you have any pics of that application?

Posted By billnaegeli on 21 May 2014 07:54 AM
FBBP do you have any pics of that application?

Which application?

Depending on how accurate your material bid and ICF block bid is.... will determine the cost of your project. However, there are many variables with additional costs, ie; the bracing system rental and insurance, the spray adhesive *you can never use too much DO NOT USE GREAT STUFF!, the vertical and horizontal block fasteners, and rebar ( we used #5 every 16" vertical and horizontal. We also insulated and ran radiant pex tubing under the floor for radiant hydronic heat. The bid will also include use of pump trucks during the pour... another $1,500-2,000 per use.
You should have some additional labor available in case of a blowout during your pours ( We've not had any). In closing, there are a lot of short cuts that could cost you on the job.

In reference to your request for a s/f cost on a 2x4 wall, are you speaking of "stick built"?? Go to your local lumber yard and they will get you fixed up. Basic frame house will range $75.-100. approximately.

Posted By Calamityj on 21 May 2014 09:53 AM
   we used #5 every 16" vertical and horizontal.

Which block did you use and was it the engineer that called for #5 in both directions?

We used 8" Logix and Amvic for our projects. The engineer called for the #5 Rebar both directions. We also added two 4'x8'x12' long deadmen for reinforcement on an 80' long wall that is 17' tall INGROUND....In a more conventional plan, you could most likely use #4 rebar.... This structure is 40x80 and has an offset gable with a 26' rise. We incorporated an enormous Lam Beam that is 6.5"x20"Hx80'Length....also engineered roof system with R55+ and dead air space of 4" under a standing rib metal roof, to accomodate a fan operated on a thermostat concealed in a large cupola.

Please NOTE: Logix blocks are great, but not Unisex.... therefore, you could have a little more waste than with other blocks such as Amvic/Build Block/Nudura/Quad0lock or other unisex products.... reason, they can go both ways for stacking.