Your right..Our MagBoard SIPS have NTA testing which is who SIPA endorses and reccomends...also The Federation of American Scientists and the DOE ..ect... we have not cut any corners on testing our product..would put our testing against any steel SIPS in the market including yours if you have any..also better in cost.. performance..livability and ease of construction is much improved in my opinion...I have built with both..you should at least have an open mind all you do is slam it and you probaly never even seen it..I would send you a sample if you would look at it..you might change your mind and like it...think about it MgO makes a lot of sense..like it or not it's coming and it's here to stay..just make sure you buy a board from a certified manufacturer with North American QC in place and ask for the paper work

Posted By MagDaddy on 14 May 2010 04:20 AM
Your right..Our MagBoard SIPS have NTA testing which is who SIPA endorses and reccomends...also The Federation of American Scientists and the DOE ..ect... we have not cut any corners on testing our product..would put our testing against any steel SIPS in the market including yours if you have any..also better in cost.. performance..livability and ease of construction is much improved in my opinion...I have built with both..you should at least have an open mind all you do is slam it and you probaly never even seen it..I would send you a sample if you would look at it..you might change your mind and like it...think about it MgO makes a lot of sense..like it or not it's coming and it's here to stay..just make sure you buy a board from a certified manufacturer with North American QC in place and ask for the paper work

Who are you?

anyone who builds with sips most likely has an open mind to start with, I have built with OSB, steel, fibercement and aluminum.
There is NO WAY mag board SIPs would out perform our panels. If I ever saw one I could form an opinion,There have been more UFO sightingings than MagBoard sip sightings.
Having experienced fibercement SIPs, I can make an assumption sight unseen, they are probably heavy, limited in length, need splines and spline fasteners, not practical for roof applications. If those assumptions aree incorrect please advise?

To answer your first question, I am a manufacturers representative.  I personally have over 30 years experience in coatings, structural adhesives, and structural panel lamination.

To answer your second question,  I agree with you, that structural panels for use in roof application would be limited.  However, my opinion is that MgO surfaces would definately be an advantage, for the many reasons stated by others before.  I don't really need to to repeat them as I respect people's time.

I am blind from reading a million posts...

Please... repost here the website I can go to to look at sip's made from all three materials that I could use here in Lake George, NY.

thanks
aj

steel, osb(I do know of one osb), and mgo

Having read through everything despite the challenges set out in the original question ... I would have hoped that some of the answers would have been less confrontational. We are opting for MgO SIPS downunder - in the southern hemisphere, we have regular earthquakes, cyclonic winds and the humidity and ocean is never far away. So our building codes are extremely demanding. We aim to get our engineered SIP constructions tested and into the market place as soon as we can. Once we do this then we can share some of our findings from "the horses mouth" so to speak. If any of you guys have any positive advice based on your experiences, we would be very happy to have it and add it into the process. After all none of us who believe in SIPS want or need to keep reinventing the wheel. thanks

Posted By Total Panel Source on 14 May 2010 09:23 AM
To answer your first question, I am a manufacturers representative.  I personally have over 30 years experience in coatings, structural adhesives, and structural panel lamination.

To answer your second question,  I agree with you, that structural panels for use in roof application would be limited.  However, my opinion is that MgO surfaces would definately be an advantage, for the many reasons stated by others before.  I don't really need to to repeat them as I respect people's time.

So MagDaddy is also total panel source too? and you are a mfg's rep.(no name) so limited for roof application, cannot balloon frame due to size limitations, but in your opinion is better .......OK , as you said .......... is your opinion

Hi all,

Anyone who wants to cooperate with a decent Chinese manufacturer to make MgO boards under North American standards and constant quality control can come to China to check the production capabilities and bring back samples to test. I can bridge you to a select of reliable manufactureres in China. We are open to any cooperative modes.

Sam

I apologize, I thought the earlier comments were directed to me, Total Panel Source when they were in fact directed to MagDaddy.  Sorry for the confusion, I am new to these forums.  I am not connected to MagDaddy.

Fred Miller
Totalpanelsource

samfove ,

it is not the single component in question , but the SIP laminated component that lacks testing

But if the components are good, so will be the assembly.

There is too much testing required. If someone wants to use their own judgement instead of someone else's, and use an untested product they should be able to.

Yes, if only themselves and their family will live there. However building codes and standards are there to protect EVERYONE, including the next owner who will not know that untested or substandard materials and methods were used in the construction of their home. After moving into my house six years ago I discovered very bad wiring situations. The materials (extension cords, bell wire, etc.) were NEVER allowed under ANY version of the NEC (which has been in force here for over five decades). I literally discovered situations that, if not fixed, could kill someone or set fire to my home! Under your philosophy these previous owners were within their rights to do this?

That is where I disagree. A buyer can always hire an inspector to investigate what they are concerned about. Bigrig's situation is also an example of where codes and testing did not help.

I do not want government to take care of me. I want them to leave me alone so I can take care of myself. I don't trust them and they do a poor job. And their requirements on business are overbearing.

I'm sure some building codes would have been useful in a certain country where an earthquake destroyed almost every building in a major city. And I'm sure everyone there knew the buildings were unsafe, right? As they say "Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins". I work with the NEC (National Electrical Code) every working day. I take classes every year to keep up to date with the latest changes and interpretations. In class they tell us "Every rule in the NEC is written in someone's blood". I have seen case studies and I BELIEVE in the system. Sometimes they go too far, sometimes not far enough. The recent requirements for tamper-proof receptacles are too far in my opinion. On the other hand, many children are injured and killed every year and this will help prevent that. You want to build a car without brakes and lights? Go ahead, just don't expect to be allowed on the road with other people. You want to build a house using your own judgement instead of what has been engineered and proven to be safe? Fine. BUT YOU SHOULD NOT EXPECT TO BE ABLE TO SELL THAT HOUSE TO ANYONE ELSE! Tear it down when you move out. We cannot protect you from your own short-sightedness, no matter what some politicians may try.  But as I said, the codes are for the protection of everyone!

And as to my situation, it is obvious that prior owners knew what they were doing was wrong and unsafe as they took every effort to hide their "handywork". I have had to clean up after these sorts of situations many times in my work, including some shockingly (literally) unsafe conditions IN SCHOOLS! Was that their right as well? To place SOMEONE ELSE'S children in danger?

I am more in agreement with Bigrig; while I loath the permitting process, I do not cut corners in the construction process, it is normally overkill on everything. But, there are many builders that are anxious to save every penny, with disregard for the homeowner. Many homeowners are not savvy enough to know if the job is to code ore not.
In as much as I don't like "big brother" looking over my shoulder, I also realize that many owner/builders and builders would not do the right thing unless they are forced to.
"Its my house and I should be able to do what I want!" does not hold water either because eventually your going to move out or die, then some poor unsuspecting sap is going to inherit you substandard crap.
Codes and inspections are intended for "minimum" safety standards, if we encounter over zealous inspectors, then it is the lesser of two evils

Posted By cmkavala on 16 May 2010 05:51 AM
Codes and inspections are intended for "minimum" safety standards, if we encounter over zealous inspectors, then it is the lesser of two evils

It is true that sometimes inspectors go overboard. I have had projects where we went to the state because a local inspector demanded things that code did not require. And it is also true that I have had contractors try to install substandard materials that do not meet code or our specifications and a GOOD inspector called them on it. And code minimum just means that it will be reasonably safe, not that it is a good building. I have had architects design to code minimums. In one school the second floor floor concrete slab is so thin that the ceiling if the class below literally bounces whenever anyone walks across it.

And Brad, if I can put up with the codes on a daily basis so can you.
NEC (National Electrical Code)
OSFC (Ohio Schools Facility Commision)
ASHRAE 90.1 Energy Code (tells me the maximum allowed wattage for lighting, pretty low allowances)
LEED (OSFC is now requireing buildings to also be LEED Silver rated, meaning I must be BETTER than 90.1)
OBC (Ohio Building Code)
ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act)
And many of these codes are contradictory in things like mounting height of devices!

However by following these codes I know that my designs are safe, and will be usable for many years to come. On the other hand I have seen MANY situations where an owner has decided to do things THEIR way. And sometimes it will work for years. Sometimes it is even safe. However all too often it is not and people get hurt or killed. Improper neutral to ground bonds, undersized wires, lack of ATS on generator hook-ups, etc. ALL of these things kill people and yet "It's MY building and I can do what I want". As I said, if you want to risk your family go ahead. Just don't risk anyone else's.

I believe in min building codes. But I know they have gone too far. We have too much regulation, bureaucracy. Much of MN has no building code and those people and their children are still alive. Don't be so dramatic, "its for the children".Why do they require ASTM testing on cosmetic products that cost tens of thousands of dollars and take months? Put a torch to it, dunk it in water and break it a few times and call it "good".

Why just because of where I Own land I have to use what "they" want me to and put up with their inspections. If you think they protect you think again. Just because you think it is a good idea doesn't mean I should have to do it and it doesn't mean I should have to "tear down" my house when I am done with it. Don't be ridiculous. Should people that build where there is no codes tear down their house when they move? Should someone else be able to make their own decision? Why don't we have a government employee, or Bigrig, approve each house before it is sold. And maybe you could follow me around all day to make sure I am safe.

In 20 years of construction consulting, 15 years full time, I have seen no noticeable difference between buildings built where codes are enforced. We could probably live with some codes, but "they" are out of control, as you pretty much admit.

MGO ... is the topic... enough about codes on this thread boys

Sorry, I would like to use MGO as a roof sheathing under sheet metal but it is months and thousands of dollars away from being "approved" for it. I as the land and building owner and contractor have no say in the matter.

keep talking MGO all.. I personally love the idea of MGO..

I hate mold and..... am way not into extra work or costs...

panels that come ready to tape on the interior is a no brainer of a benefit.

aj

And.... I would love to never use another sheet of crappy OSB...

aj