I'm having a little trouble following your post, so let me ask a couple of questions. First, if you are using the MGO product that is currently being manufactured and imported to the US, is there a serious water/metal corrosion problem. I'm looking at using a system that combines steel frame with eps insulation. If I were to use MGO board with that product is there a serious risk that the MGO board is going to corrode the steel? The board would be attached with screws - would it corrode the screws? Would the answer be different in an interior application vs. and exterior application? The manufacturers claim that the board is effectively inert and water resistant. What kind of conditions would cause the magnesium chloride to begin to leach? Finally, is MGO board even cost competitive with other sheathing materials? Your thoughts would be appreciated.

I am not sure about the metal corrosion. The major cause of the mgcl2 leach is moisture.

Depends on the application you intend, you need to find a way to avoild the moisture penetration. Or in other word, keep the moisture balanced all the time.

Pure mgo board is a very good as a fire block/brick.

For the fibre reinforced mgo board, there are many ways to do it and it all depends on each factory.

For your application, you may consider to use cement bonded particle board, which is almost identical from factories meeting the EU standard.

Available brands in US are Armoroc, Versaroc and Viroc.

The cost is very close to those imported panels.

 

I am a product development engineer and have worked with MgO refractories for 35 years. The MgO board being discussed is probably not magnesium oxide, but some other material such as magnesium carbonate or hydrate.

MgO does not exist in nature as it is unstable. MgO is formed by burning magnesium carbonate (magnesite) at high temperature. In contact with water or water vapor it converts to Mg(OH)2, magnesium hydroxide, which is stable. A large volume expansion occurs during hydration and the MgO body bursts into small pieces. 

Believe me, a building product based on MgO would not last in contact with water or high humidity.

PTS

MgO board is composed from magnesium oxide, magnesium chloride and fibrous reinforcement for strenght.

Why would someone use mixed skins SIP's? People in this industry are very hard to change and go with a new and better product. Cement skin ( protec panels) or MgO skin ( mag wall, Canada). Both products ofer much better quality product than any other OSB SIP panel on the market. Both sides are  READY for finish the next day, no drywall, no vapor barier, no siding, etc.
Yes I know that nobody wants this on the market because what are they going to do with the lumber industry? and with the drywall? and no Tyvek ???

Must be same conspiracy that kept the 200 mpg carburetor off the market?

I am not sure about that but I can tell you that the fire test for MgO it is $10500.00. Is this encouraging?

Yes , I feel much better

I agree with you PTS. It should be mainly Mg(OH)2.

It is originally talking about Mg concrete blocks people used to build the great wall,

It is very much diiferent now.

As far as the skin is concerned, there are definite advantages using cement based structural panels.  Please pay attention to the word "structural".

People could use cement bonded particle board or fiber cement board.

 

 

 Has anyone on this thread tried Wiki? There is more useful [i]general[/i] information there about MgO board than in this thread.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_oxide_wallboard
 This will familiarize you with the material, how it is made, and where it is produced.
 After much Google searching I've yet to find a local supplier here in Arizona. Apparently Dragonboard and MagBoard can be shipped in, but are not carried locally. Both have websites with MSDS and other information.
Here in Arizona, many homes have a "patio cover" (outside porch or patio) which have drywall as basically a ceiling covering to hide studs as would be found on an unfinished porch. Older homes often had ship-lap or tongue and groove wood, panelling, or stucco. These apparently were more expensive than simply putting up drywall, taping (with paper tape, no less) and texturing and painting as though these areas were interior ceilings.
 They often get wet, seams fail, texture fails, whole sections fall in, etc.  Many homeowners assume that these areas in newer homes are stucco, and regularly hose them off to clean them. Also, many homeowners have misting systems on these patios that create moisture problems, causing failure. I don't know why the builders here were [i]EVER ALLOWED[/i] to use drywall in exterior applications!
 I am a handyman who often has to repair these areas, and I'm looking for a better solution than to simply re-tape and texture (and paint) current problem installations. I'd like to have a local supplier where I could simply pick up a few panels to install in one of these areas to see how it stands up against the standard patio cover treatments. (These areas are typically not large, 300 square feet or less, so fewer  than 10 panels would be used for each.)

Hi there. I m a civil engineer and from Turkey. I have researched about MGO boards since 2009 . I try to buy from China but i can not find the good manufacturer. Good quality and every time same quality . Thank u

Have you talked to Dan Armstrong of Magnum Board in Tampa, FL ? Give him a call or email. www.magnumbp.com
I talked to Dan in their booth at Int'l Builder's Show in Las Vegas last week.

fixitman,

Sorry for the delay to get back to your concerns.

For those issues you mentioned, either cement bonded particle board or fiber cement board would resovle the problems.

You may contact Nonnie Crystal from FL at 321 615 7847 to get some ideas of how she and her husband used ARMOROC cement bonded particle board and ARMORPLANK fiber cement board in their house.

If you don't mind, you may refer us a couple of panel distributors in your area so I could contact them to try to set up distribution for those panels.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Wayne

 

 

 

The discussion of possible new materials to address either real or perceived shortcomings of existing SIP skins is very interesting to this future SIP customer.

What would be the possible benefits of these MGO type products over an existing steel SIP such as what Chris markets?  If it's just a nicer interior surface, I can't imagine a big market if there remained the current apparent confusion about long-term durability, moisture tolerance, etc.

The reference to Armoroc cement board makes me wonder if any company currently builds SIPS using this product as the skin.  Does anyone know?

Great forum!

One of the biggest hurdles that MGO (Magnesium OxyChloride / Sorel cement) is going to have is that it is not just based on MGO, but also on MgCl2. I know that in Los Angeles, CA, there is a restriction on building materials that include any salts, of which one of the most corrosive is MgCl2. Unless, and until, it can be proven that MGO boards are not corrosive to metal that the board comes into contact with, then the likelihood of widespread usage in the US is minimal.

One can always use stainless steel screws, but at a cost. If there is no other metal to contend with, then it may be feasible, but I think we need proof that the MgCl2 isn't corrosive. And, to be clear, MgCl2 amounts to about 20% by weight of MGO board. MGO is 36% by weight, and H2O is the balance... so you can see where the concern arises.

So I guess from what your saying is OSB..wood in general is better if it wasen't.. for fire .. bugs ..mold ..water..rot..shrinkage..twisting..green..salt water..ext..we have been sheathing steel with our MgO board for several years and never had a problem.. 3/4 quarters of the world is covered in salt..

To MagDaddy:

I'm uncertain what problems MGO (or MagBoard) solves compared to steel SIPs. 

OSB...OK, I understand the potential moisture related concerns with OSB.

But treated steel? 

Can you clarify?

Have you ever seen a MgO skinned finished SIP panel ?

So, MagDaddy, the one and only thing that I said is that you (or anyone else) has to show demonstrable, unequivocal PROOF that there will be no damage to metal fasteners or other support members as a result of the MgCl2 in the board. Your "word" for it just isn't going to convince my county inspector - but for the record, she is a bit of a jerk.

And, for the record, if the MgCl2 issues and any remaining water damage issues can be, or are solved, then I am the biggest among the MGO board fans. MGO is stronger than portland cement, is less alkaline than portland cement so you don't need zircon fibers, it's fire proof, insect proof, and finishes very nicely for interior walls. Show me the report from a reputable testing firm, and I'm there.

@MagDaddy:

No, I have not seen an MGO SIP in person.  The images available on the web are attractive. 

Dick Mills raises a very good question--is there any third party information that can dispel the lingering confusion about MGO's moisture tolerance and ability to 'play nice' with metal?  I'd imagine that such documentation would be extremely important in terms of getting the message out on MGO and helping MGO SIPS gain market share. 

I'm looking for a SIPS solution that addresses my perception (whether correct or not) that OSB SIPS may limit repair options in the event of water intrusion into the structure.  With stick built structures, the remediation process is straightforward--with OSB SIPS I'd be concerned that even a relatively small problem could be a complex issue that could endanger the entire structure. 

Again, this may be an incorrect perception--but I'd view more moisture-tolerant skins such as steel or MGO as prudent insurance. 

Chris K has done a very thorough job of presenting the merits of his product--I'm very interested in the comparative advantages of alternatives such as MGO. 

Any links you could provide to help me learn more about this matter would be appreciated.