Here's a link to the specs: http://www.tclear.com/protec/specs.html
I have been speaking with Dick Crawford who is very knowledgable and extremely helpful.
Good luck,
Scott

Regarding TClear, would the steel H connecting channels create a thermal transfer opportunity?

I don't think so. The steel does not touch the fiber cement skin. There is a 3/4 inch of EPS between either side of the steel and the skin.

Our 'sips' panels come out to about $3.80 per sq.ft.
All the same benefits as previously posted apply.
All fabrication is done in shop.
www.greenhomeframing.com

Paneldude ....

your walls are not technically SIPs they are studs with foam blocking, they are prefabricated wall panels.

your roof panels still need a layer of feild applied sheathing?

Your website says your panels were tested, but tested to what standard and did they pass the test?

Why do you need a crane to set wall panels as shown on your website?

Looking at that website, I would imagine the exterior would also need some additional sheathing or racking and/or shear reinforcement. I'm not sure what, if any, building code that assembly satisfies - but I wouldn't build with it!

Paneldude,

I absolutely love innovation. Checked out your site. Looks like your target market should be hurricane and tornado country. I am wondering why the steel in your SIPs ? Standard SIPs are pretty damn strong without the steel frame. It appears that your product is not delivered with any sheathing applied, which makes sense for the cheaper price. Do you still apply sheathing over the exterior once the walls are set ? It appears more like table framing with the EPS inserted in between the steel members ? What holds the EPS in place ? The big issue I see is with the thermal bridging due to the steel members.

FYI to All - SIPs are not defined strickly by OSB skins adhered to a foam core. There have been many types of SIPs using different materials that have been made throughout the years. OSB and foam has gained the bigger share of the market as it's as close to a standard wood frame product as you can get. Hard to change an industry when you throw a totally different product at it.

PanelGuy

No it's not just OSB skins adhered to foam, there are steel skins, cement fiber skins, et cetera. But the foam adhered between the skins is what makes the panels structural. If the elements aren't structural then how can you call them SIPS?

Panel Guy;

I beg to differ - Paneldudes system is not a SIP it is a prefabricated wall system and roof panels do not even have sheathing. These systems are not new &  have been around for years in wood, in recent years in steel. I love innovation as well but, this technology is old school.
But truly not a SIP as in a laminated or foam injected, skinned panel

Hey, are the Panel Guy and paneldude cousins?

 Here is an example of the prices I have for ThermaSAVE panels.  THe Fiberrock concrete boards act as the inner and outer layer which allows stucco, hardiplank, or brick/stone fascade to be attached quickly.  The interior is fished as/like drywall which saves time and money.  R-values are similar.  Floor - Wall - & Roof System that is easy to use.

I build residnetial, commercial and light industrial projects.  Some subscribe to the overall product while others are still unsure.  I know this is the best way to go.  R+L Carries tends to give me some of the best pricing for shipping - may want to check with them.


PANEL ONLY: 5/16 Cement Board (Both Sides)

 Panel Thickness          SF Cost     4X8           4X10         4X12____

4 Inch                         $4.00      $128.00      $160.00      $192.00

6 Inch                         $4.45      $142.40     $178.00       $213.60

8 Inch                         $4.75      $152.00     $190.00       $228.00

10 Inch                       $5.25       $168.00     $210.00       $252.00

12 Inch                      $5.65        $180.80     $226.00       $271.20

 ROOF PANEL ONLY: 7/16 Cement Board (Both Sides)

 Panel Thickness         SF Cost    4X8       4X10       4X12____

8 Inch                     $5.50       $176.00   $220.00    $264.00

10 Inch                    $5.85       $187.20   $234.00    $280.80

 

GC,

any idea what it costs for the various other things like cutouts for windows, doors, electric boxes, splines, foam sealant, etc. I was unable to get a detailed bid from the factory and another of its distributors. I got a lump some bid that made impossible to make an decent comparison. I also found the customer service somewhat less than enthuiastic. Its too bad because I think its a good product since it also offers a roof system. In the end I went with ProTech from TClear which is also fiber cement but has no roof system. It does have sperb customer service and as I stated elsewhere my ready-to-install cost was about $5.57 for 3500 square feet of wall space using 4" panels with R-20 insulation value. I'm using OSB SIPS for the roof. Can you give me some info on your ready-to-install costs?

Thanks,

Scott

Scott -

I am sorry you did not have a good experience with the company. Plants are individually owned and operated so the quality of service varies. I can only say that I do operate differently with the highest degree of service so that you get the answers asap.

Here is a home that is a basic design.
Preliminary estimate for 24’ x 28’ Mt. Airy 2 value plan

QUANTITY SIZE DESCRIPTION

Roof
8” 1008 sq.ft 5/16th x 7/16th cb skins

Exterior walls
6” 2288 sq.ft 5/16th cb skins

Interior wall>>
4” 2240 sq.ft 5/16th cb skins

Floor
8” 1344 sq.ft 7/16th cb skins

** with 12’ span


Second floor ceiling
8” 672 sq.ft. 7/16th cb skin

PANELS ONLY TOTAL $ 29,789.00
ALLOWANCE FOR CUTS/SPLINES/THRU FASNTERS $ 7,448.00
Grand Total $37.237.00
Shipping @$2400

@4.93 SF Ready to assemble. I have total construction costs at $120,550.00 not including survey or impact fees for this 2400 SF home using Thermasave. The SF cost would then be $50.23 I can send you the spec sheet if you like.

If I want to know the differential in cost to me for panels from two different sources, the best information I could get is to ask each of them for the cost of a single plain panel of given dimensions, specifying that the panael be as produced at the factory with no fenestration of other additions. 

If either supplier answers with some obfuscation about shipping, processing or special pricing this week only, that answer should be declared as inelegible for any proper comparison. 

I am not overly smart, but am able to take into consideration or later to ask about the advantages of factory processing, short shipping distances, ease of handling and other factors. 

All the posts so far have not been useful in this regard since they discuss apples, oranges, and bicycles. 

Will someone please tell me the cost for a panel 8 feet by 12feet by 6 inches exactly, first with osb skin, and then with steel?

If I could find that information without confusion, I might be be interested enough in the one type or the other to examine it further for use in a project.

Please, any two metal skin and osb skin manufaturers?

Stan

Stan;

There are previous bare-bone costs on this same thread, since steel comes in 24", 36" 39", 45" & 48" wide (depending on mfg) your question cannot be answered without the cost being apples and oranges , just like if you asked how much is a 39" x 17 ft. OSB panel cost? The OSB needs to get cut out of a 48" x  18ft. piece, so the apples and oranges again!

In addition all do not use the same add on components for OSB, cement fiber or Steel

And all will be biased towards their own system,

the best way to conclude what works best for you is to prepare a preliminary plan with floor layout/dimensions, simple elevation showing roof design & wall heights/roof pitch, etc.

Send out for bids, delivered to your site, evaluate the pros and cons of each system in your own mind, then choose what works best for you.

Response from vendors during the bidding process is a good indication of how you will be treated after the sale too.

6 1/2 inch x 8 feet x 12 feet - OSB Panel - All edges setback 1 5/8 inches - West Coast Pricing - 96 sq. ft. x $ 4.25 = $ 408.00

That was easy.

Kavala has an idea going here. It was great to see the different type of SIPs weigh in on the original idea of this thread that I started. I have to admit, as astute as I am at looking at SIP pricing, the apples and oranges thing doesn't provide for simple comparisons, which was my initial intention with this thread.

I say we start a new thread with a simple structure, say 12 foot wide x 40 foot long, 6:12 pitch roof - simple gable end. 6 1/2 inch walls, 8 1/4 inch roof. Someone come up with a simple design with a couple of windows, one door and everyone run pricing for it.

Anyone want to play ?

The Panel Guy,

That would be a VERY interesting thread if vendors would participate, but I think that you'd need more than L x W and roof slope to provide a comparison.

Many comments suggest that "optimizing" the layout for SIPs can make a cost difference; but Chris and earlier comments note that different sources provide panels of different widths.  Thus, it might be worthwhile allowing a source to modestly adjust the width and length of the plan to optimize for their panels so long as the final dimensions are stated.

You then have the wall height as an issue.  Several earlier postings suggest that some sources can cut over-size ("super"?) panels to install a wall as one unit.  Thus, you might get significantly different cost values for 8' and 10' walls because both the material (different waste ratios?) and labor costs could increase if super panels became too wide to ship.

So. . .  To really burden the contributors, IF their costs/sf of wall would change if the ceiling height increased, could they provide a second estimate for 10' ceilings?

Are you assuming the foundation exists, or are you going to ask for that cost to be included? 
Are you going to specify what beams and structure you assume?  (For example, Chaleff described a fully engineered structure with no beams for the roof.)
What interior and exterior finishes do you want?  (For example, Chris discribes using channels to raise the wallboard off the panel surface, and identifies specific advantages to his approach -- but that approach might add cost.)

I'm assuming that you want a total cost including materials, equipment rentals, labor, and supplies.  If individuals did not wish to to provide a breakout, would a cost of materials, a cost for all other costs, and a brief description of their approach (crane on site for 3 days, 2 scissor lifts of 5 days, 8 men and a mule lifting by hand, etc.) be sufficient?

Very respectfully,
Larry

Yes, The building size is just fine

lets pick the subject building site in Key West, Florida

now everyone needs to include freight in their final price and of course everyones panels must have Florida Product approval and be Miami-Dade approved too

Chris,

Nice test case senario, are there any players out there?

Since I asked the question about anyone wanting to play, I've been busy getting ready for the PCBC (Pacific Coast Builders Conference) being held in San Francisco this week. I'm going to put together a set of criteria and begin a new thread on pricing a small structure.

I'll be back.

TPG