jetgraphics;


don't kill the messenger!

Jeff;

2# density is not the ultimate core, 1.25# seems to work better as the glue imbeds better into the EPS core.

I thought your floor was 4"?

I used a 6"  with 1.5# core in my office loft at a 16ft. long / 12ft. span  and 4 ft. porch roof cantilever, OSB underlay and a 3/8" oak floor (glue down)
I have a huge oak desk, oak file cabinets with paper files and it feels stiffer a 2x8 @ 16" OC wood  
Floor

metal based sips seem to perform better when they are imposed with a heavy load, it sounds like you may be experiencing "bounce" .... to light of a load

I once used 6" aluminum sips for a roof with cement barrel roofing, be fore the roofing was installed it "bounced" after it was loaded it was rock solid  the span was 17 feet

Chris,

8" is what we used. I like a floor where the china cabinet does not rattle. Yes building up stiff top layers really help.

I do recall the short span in between the support beams, what were the beams comprised of?

Built OSB SIPs home in Sept. '06 to June '07
2 stories (first level 10', 2nd level 8')
Purchased hip roof (SIP) and side walls (SIP) from SIP company
They took my design and engineered/stamped it.
House measures 87' long by 26' wide.
Package included: insulated headers (where needed - 4 large window areas, huge garage header, front door header), insulated splines, foam, two foam guns, heating knife, screws, washers, stamped plans, delivery, tax, all openings cut and scooped, chases cut for electrical.
Total price from supplier around $41,000. I figure that comes to around $5.80 per sq. ft.
Two things I observed (Note: I am a homeowner that built my own house. Not a carpenter, builder, etc.)
*I mainly chose SIPs because I was (and am) convinced that it is FAR superior construction than stick. Perfectly straight walls and waaaaayyy stronger. (Disclosure: If I could have afforded it, I would have gone ICF the whole way- except the roof ; - ).
I think if someone is trying to build a CHEAPER home, then stick build it is. If I am correct, this way of building houses came into useage just for that reason. To provide housing to the masses. Rich folk have always (historically) built out of concrete, stone, etc.
I have found it hard to justify the "up" charge on using SIPs solely on the return on investment from energy savings.

**The only major thing I would have done differently was plan for the "hollow" sound or low frequency noise that comes through the walls too easily. Since building it, I have discovered ways that I could have avoided this during the build process. This is my ignorance and lack of homework. Fortunately for me, I live in area that is 'mostly' quiet most of the year.

Good discussions on here. Even if they get hijacked sometimes.

Speaking of hijacking.  I am about to start SIP project.  What ways did you discover to avoid hollow sound?  Not trying to restart whole flame war on noise and SIPs.

Hey Rich,
No hijacking.  I mentioned that just in case someone else could benefit from it.  If you search this forum there are few ways that were mentioned.

*One way is to create an air space on the inside of the sips by furring out a wall.  I suppose they use 1 x 4 s nailed to the interior of the SIP and then drywall over that.  Personally, I wouldn't have done that even if I would have read about it.  Seems like an aweful lot of expense and time.  Plus, there are other considerations (depth of window sill, reduced space, etc.)  But that is me.  Others will tell you no big deal.

*The other way is a product I saw on here that is like a rubber mat on a roll.  The website (I don't have it) shows putting this on the inside or outside of the SIPs as well as on top of your joists/trusses but underdneath your floor sheating (I used OSB).  The "science" behind it is as sound waves hit it, they dissipate through the mat and actually creates a small amount of heat.  I'm sure that is not the exact scientific explanation but close enough for laymen.  The point is, the sound is reduced significantly or eliminated.  It is not cheap (I estimate it would have cost me around $5k to do my whole house).  More than the studs/drywall method but cleaner and easier (imo).
Anyway, for me doing my own house, I would have definitely made the investment.  It would drive me crazy if I live in a city or a busier/louder neighborhood.

Have fun with it.  I sure did!

A comment on your windows as I am also now doing a price out as well.  One thing when I looked at Pella and read the fine print on the warreny for vinyl (wood inside) deep deep in the warrenty stuff it stated Pella is not responsible for claims and damages........ then it specifically states" Pella should not be used in a barrier wall system which do not allow the proper management of moisture within the wall systems; such as Exterior Insulation Finished Systems (EIFs) such as stucco or simular systems.........................."   I am impressed with HURD from looking at it, Not so much on Pella PRO series (one step down from yours)  and Anderson 200series has the same basics as there 400 series just not as many bells  and sizes but if you go with standard ones the 200 is the same as the 400 series.  

I guess I will be getting my sticker shock soon on windows

Lisa

Hi Kyle,
I live in southern Ontario. If you haven't already decided on a solution I may have an option for you. nikabi at live dot ca

Thanks everyone for your input even though it did get side tracked a few times - that happens on forums so no worry. Sometimes one actually gets ideas/tips from the side bars and they can be very useful.

So I have decided to go with blank panel SIPs as I cannot justify the cost of RTB package. When I look over everything and after lenghty analysis, I don't see how it costs $10,000 for blank panels and another $10,000 for an RTB package. My decision is based on cost and experience as I have built my two former homes, one stick framed and the other strawbale where sometimes you need to be able change things on the fly. Also my brother and his colleague are both carpenters so there is nothing that I can see that intimidates us with a blank panel. Yes, cutting the first few holes for windows will take some extra time due to wishing to do it right but that is about all I see.

As for windows, I have selected to go with Fibertec for a few reasons. First, I wanted fibreglass and that directed me to Fibertec or Thermatech (out of Ottawa, ON) and the latter just would not call me back after two phone calls. Steven Hall at Fibertec on the other hand was very efficient, communicated well and kept in touch and I like that from a company. So the second reason was customer service which is important to me. The third reason is that Steven was able to provide me with the windows I wanted at the targeted efficiencies.

On a final note about the argument/debate over cost for SIPs, my reason for going with them is insulation values and ease of construction. The former is critical to me and I believe will provide me with what I was seeking. Yes they are expensive compared to stick framing so I believe I am paying a premium for what I believe is a premimum building process. On the other hand, I am a firm believer that one should not have a mortgage or if one does, it should be very small. This has served me well with my last three homes and will again with this one as it will be built cash only, no liens. The house I am building is a modest 1800ft craftsman style ranch with SIPs for wall and blown-in cellulose for the attic. Windows will be premium and the house will be heated by a masonry heater with backup radiant heat. There will be some luxeries such as soapstone counters and bamboo flooring throughout which are a splurge I'll admit. I am also planning to be able to retrofit the radiant floor heating with solar once I am established.

Tks again.

Klye241;

Cost is  a good reason to buy blank panels, we have mostly used blank panels for: cost, speed of manufacturing, job condition flexibilty (foundation mistakes or customer changes)
It has been our experience that precut panel packages all have human errors.

A while back, on one if these threads someone was asking about connection details, they can now be viewed at

http://www.storyq.net/slide_boxes/7105

along with a powerpoint presentation

Kyle, I hope you change your decision about purchasing from Fibertec. They will do all they can to get your business but once paid, you are on your own. If you read my previous posts in other threads, you will understand what I'm going through. I was cleaning one of the windows yesterday and noticed the frame near one of the cranks is cracking! I have no doubt in my mind that you will regret it.
I posted on another website that rates companies and found more complaints about Fibertec. After posting my experience with them, one of the managers wrote a response. I have contacted him and awaiting a reply. I have been awaiting replies from Fibertec since last November!! My windows are falling apart. This company is horrible!

Have you started construction since this post? If not, check out our product: www.raycore.com . We are not you typical SIP manufacturer.  Our panels have studs integrated into the panel  on 16" or 24" centers.  Our 2x4 panels are R-26, 2x6 panels are R-42 and 2x8 panels are R-52. We can get you panels under $4.00/ sq ft for 2x4 panels.

For your design they will be super easy and you and your described crew could have all the wall up within 1 day easy, and that is the walls standing, insulated and vapor barrier wrapped. The wire/plumbing installation is easy. Electrians and plumbers love our product in comparision to traditional sips.

Like I said, if you haven't moved forward yet, check out our website and contact us to see what we can do to get you what you need for way less that you have been quoted by others.

Brian