Go to www.fas.org/pubs/pir/2005%20winter.pdf   The test was done in 2005 by Trentec of Cinncinatti OH by the FAS on a CSIP e-mail me and I will send it to you it ..the structure was made of cement board foam and glue

First of all, I am not a vendor, supplier, or construction professional within the housing industry (I'm aspects of all of the above in the utility industry). I am a prospective homebuilder. Since someone had the guts to start this thread, I'm going to use it to ask the questions about OSB SIPs that have bothered me. OSB SIPs seem VERY economical and are much more widely available than alternatives. HOWEVER, even a "layman" like me has experience with OSB getting wet. It tends to delaminate and fall to pieces with water exposure. While I have every intention to build my home with proper safe guards to prevent water damage, I just can't get beyond the idea that unexpected water penetration is ALWAYS a risk with buildings. In the stormy and wet southeast, this is a very realistic fear. The fear I have is that if I were to build with OSB SIPs and such water damage were to ever occur, that the cost of repair would be much, much higher than with alternative construction techniques. With OSB SIPs, prospective future water damage would seem to require the replacement of a much larger damaged area of the structure (entire panels), not just replacement of a "skin" over the studs, or even localized damage to specific studs, as in more traditional construction. Thinking of life-cycle maintenance costs, durability, and financial risk, OSB SIP construction, frankly, scares me a bit. For a small premium, it would seem that a metal SIP would have much greater durability and less financial maintenance risk from common construction and weather-related failures. If I am short-changing the durability of OSB SIPs, please help me to understand why. I'm all for going a more economical route, but am more concerned about the "life-cycle cost" not just the up-front construction cost difference. At the moment, I am looking at the options of metal SIPs, or ICFs for the envelope. I would love to not be concerned about prospective water damage of OSB SIPs, but that concern just won't seem to go away for me. If you can resolve that concern, please do. I have decided that thermal mass in the walls is less of an issue for me in Northeast Alabama, when the walls are going to be shaded in the summer with a design that includes shade from wrap-around porches, anyway. I've run the numbers and I'll get sufficient thermal mass with masonry floors. Furthermore, it is EASY at my location to achieve sufficient passive solar heat loads in the winter. Earthquake and wind resistance is a consideration between the technologies. But mostly it comes down to environmental impact and cost. Portland cement has ENORMOUS environmental impact, and I am a bit hesitant to use that much concrete. Yes, I know that the energy savings of ICF will out-weigh the carbon costs from the concrete "as compared to traditional stick construction." But I don't know that any energy savings over metal SIP construction can justify the much higher carbon impact. The lower carbon footprint of metal SIPs has leaned me in that direction. HOWEVER, I know Dr. Erez Allouche quite well, and have previously and currently engaged him in research projects on my company's behalf. I serve on the Industry Advisory Board for the research center at Louisiana Tech University where he is doing his groundbreaking research on geopolymers. Over a year ago, I was the one that suggested to him the potential of his geopolymer research for use in ICF walls. I was quite pleased when I recently saw some of his research highlighted on the front page of this forum! If the technology is ready in time, I could realistically choose to be the "experiment" for using high strength geopolymers for pouring ICF walls for my house . If I can use geopolymers, then my house becomes a VERY environmental "carbon sink" while saving high volumes of waste materials from landfills. That is attractive to me. In contrast, while I like the durability of ICF construction, the potential cost premium over SIP construction for a questionably modest increase in energy savings over time (particularly if I spend the extra for a geothermal heat pump) is causing me to lean towards SIPs versus ICF, "if" geopolymers aren't an option when I go to build. For cost-control, (and perhaps to be able to introduce multiple enviornmentally friendly construciton techniques to my community) what may end up happening, is an ICF basement and a SIP upper structure. But I'd love to hear the "bashing" of the limitations of the various technoligies. I'm quite adept at weeding through "marketing hype" and getting to the technical crux of the issues. I love how frequently people in this forum "bash" marketing hype!!! (I wish it would happen so effectively in my industry forums!) So please, EVERYONE, "sell me" on your solutions to my desired goals, and "bash away" at the limitations of the competitive alternatives. I'll sift through the rubble of it all, and make my own final decisions. Ultimately, I just want to build a durable, energy-efficient, low-maintenance, environmentally conscious, excellent indoor air quality, passively survivable home, that is capable of becoming a "net-zero energy" home with the future addition of solar panels. And I want to build it as affordably as I can. Not much to ask, right? . And I also want to make an impact on my community to encourage others to do the same. My main debate at the moment is the choice of the envelope structure. Many more debates to come... But please, weigh in.

Sounds like you just did a back door commercial for MagBoard SIPS AKA MgO SIPS

I agree with MagDaddy. Man, it doesn't feel right calling another man daddy...

We believe strongly enough in MgO that we are willing to undergo the testing to certify our panels such that we can offer MgO skins for our SIPs.

If you are building a house from the standpoint of world class construction methods, go for it, If your concerns are likewise environmental, scooby, dooby doo. But if your concerns about SIPs or OSB for that matter are of their failing to meet building codes, well history is simply not on your side. OSB SIPs have been used in this market for 30 years. Glue has gotten better and the stucco products have gotten better, but we are still using products that were first introduced into El Paso in 1979. We have no failures, we have delam's and we have no reason to believe OSB in not a viable, long term solution.

Why are we adding MgO, you might ask. We think we can obliterate the mold and insect issues that are prevelant in areas of the country we wish to expand into to. We think the limitations of 12' lengths of MgO are surmountable problems and simply require creativity on the front side of the design. It wasn't that long ago we were having these same issues with "SIP-friendly" home design. But, if I can use a SIP clad in a product that is better able to combat mold, mildew and insects and I can provide it at a comparable price, given the value added benefits, then I have the holy grail of home construction. And for the tree hugger deep within us all, MgO does not even require a fraction of the wood MgO does...

So you go right on wondering what a perfectly designed, tree hugger of a solution looks like and I will tell you it looks a lot like a SIP of the proper thickness to meet your R-value neatly clad in MgO. And I will also tell you without fear of contradition that every word I have wrote is my own opinion. And anything anyone else writes with the words best and such in the post, are simply their opinions also.

Greg Freyermuth
Energreen Products, LLC
Home of the "Best" SIPs in the world! (MY OPINION OF COURSE!)

GWittleAL;

I could argue that since metal sips do not require a crane, reduces insurance premiums, forms and finishes soffit, fascia and porch ceilings, does not require spline fastening, skin services as vapor barrier .............. the OSB is at a premium

Unbiased opinions are hard to come by in forums dominated by vendors.

As a non-vendor, I would simply suggest you look at all the existing OSB installations nationwide. Wherever it is properly installed it maintains its strength and integrity indefinitely. Why should it be any different on a SIP?

How many houses do you see where the stucco or roof is being peeled off to replace large sections of delaminating OSB?

We have replaced OSB on homes that were just 4 years old, behind Hardi Plank siding, typically it is a bad flashing job where roof intersects  a side wall and allows water to run behind siding and vapor barrier.
you can poke your finger thru the wood, fiberglass is wet and inefective and mold is on the backside of drywall

Same old fear-driven argument. Don't look at the millions (literally) of durable installations, but focus on the few where a lack of fundamental workmanship skill guaranteed product failure.

And if you don't flash your steel SIP or ICF exterior? Mold won't grow?

The OSB job I mention wasn't a SIP job  but devil is in the details and lack of knowledge in the industry as how to properly flash and seal, it is not representaive of most builders.  I have seen a lot of hacks in my day, just because it passes building inspections doesn't mean it is done right
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Improperly flashed Steel panel walls are corrosion resistant and will not sustain rot or mold, it doesn't mean that water won't find its way in, but there will be no structural damage to the panel because of it.

My two cents,
I built my SIP home with OSB 3 yrs. ago. It remains to be seen whether or not I made the right choice. To be honest, I didn't realize at the time that SIPs come in Steel, MgO, etc. types of sheeting. First of all, if siding, et. al. is installed properly (that is the key with most applications I would imagine), the OSB will perform just fine. However, why the hate in people looking at and promoting other alternatives to OSB that address such issues such as mold and insects? Any consumer will have to compare the VALUE of whatever product they choose. Do the chances of mold, delamination, insects out weigh the upcharge for other options outside of OSB? What other things (other trades) are affected (>$S) by using something other than OSB? I am not advocating any particular product but there is a decision comparison that needs to be made. Pretty much like purchasing many other products. Are there additional costs? If so, do they out weigh the potential benefits of the upcharge?

As far as the whole "carbon footprint" garbage, in my opinion, it is not even worth bringing up. There is so much mis-information and hypocrisy on that subject that it is a non-issue in my book.