Out of curiosity, isn't headers needed above window and door openings to carry the roof truss loads (and or floor system loads if there is a 2nd floor). If you order blank SIPS panels and cut the window/door openings yourself on-site, just wondering how this works. A SIPS roof probably not an issue... ?

Posted By Jere on 29 Nov 2010 01:37 PM
Out of curiosity, isn't headers needed above window and door openings to carry the roof truss loads (and or floor system loads if there is a 2nd floor). If you order blank SIPS panels and cut the window/door openings yourself on-site, just wondering how this works. A SIPS roof probably not an issue... ?

all depends on a lot of variables, with our system most openings 6 feet and under only need to be picture framed with channel and no foam routing.

Posted By cmkavala on 28 Nov 2010 05:37 PM
izerarc;

yes you can cut with just a skil saw on each side, instead of buying an expensive electric hot knife you can simply use an electric charcol lighter ($12. at Lowes, home Depot or Target)  that actually works faster than the knife.

Again Chris provided the correct answers of course! My DIY'er experience is building my last three homes, stick/balloon framing, strawbale and now SIP and as I said, I didn't have any problems. I doubt you would too if you have 6yrs framing/carpentry behind you. The only 'problem' I had was the worrying about all the rain that we got during the summer of 2009. It was one of the wettest on record and I was covering the walls with tarps...fun! The biggest thing that stops people from doing anything themselves is often fear, the greatest opponent to success. All my friends think I am nuts building my last three homes but I like doing it even though it's not my profession (I wish it was). Currently finishing up my garage/shop all by myself - attic trusses and all (24x32, not SIP though).

I called the panel supplier.  He said since they are urethane panels, you do not save anything one blank panels.  Since they price by the foam injected, he said the foam not used for the window openings offsets the labor for cutting and installing the window opening framing.  He said they typically do not add anything for windows unless they are over 4' wide, in which case they add a header.  He said in which case most of that price is offset by less foam as well.

I will note that I have gotten prices for 3-4 EPS panles and 2 different urethane panels.  Both urethane panels are made about 2 hrs from here, and 1 EPS panel is made about 3 hrs from here.  The urethane is coming in cheaper then the EPS panels.

with the superior walls is there consern about settling since they are on gravel footings?

thanks

In what has become the "conventional" method of building a footing out of poured concrete and then building a wall (think history)
Is there not a concern the footing will subside because it is just being supported by dirt??
Ultimately you have to consider the bearing capacity of the soils whether one has a rubble/trench or a spread footing or COMPACTED, fully consolodated, washed, screened gravel that rests believe it or not on--the soil.
If it worked for the thousands of years before you became an expert it probably will work now.
As with any construction of consequence, consult an engineer. If your chosen engineer is divorced from logic, find one that knows what that is and is willing to quantify it with the math.

For comparison,188 lin ft of 8" icf wall with footing and waterproofing here in the wilds of upstates NY would be about $16,724 US.

The midwest has some of the cheapest construction in the US.  There is no way the ICF with footings would cost $16k.  That puts the ICF at around $11sqft including footings.  My poured wall estimates are more then that.  THe cheapest ICF quote I got so far was $24k.

I try to do things a little more efficiently than others. I pay quite a bit less for block than your price. My waterproofing is less. I use dimpled membrane almost exclusively. I mono pour my footings and walls saving according to your prices, $3700. I panelize my wall sections so we're not standing in a sea of foam bundles. My footing forms arrive at the job site on a trailer already put together in master sections of 18'. A rectangle or square can be set up by four men in 1 day with bracing and ready for pour on the next day. You can do things the way they have been done in the past or try and make yourself more efficient. My competitors are not other icf guys, but poured wall companies.

wow, well I wished you lived closer/ICFers would get more creative around here!
I am not sure if inspectors would like the mono pour footing and walls around here though.  We are required to have footing inspections prior to stem wall/basement wall construction.  Would have to be something to talk to the inspector about.
I did get a quote from TF for the vertical panels and DIY it.  The panels, plus concrete, plus me doing footings would cost around $16,000 for DIY.

I have an engineer who made me a set of stamped drawings for 16x8,20x10 and24x12 mono pour system and any questions are soon over. What's funny inspectors check for footing rebar but never check the walls after the footing is poured.  With the system that I use the rebar is not covered , so it is easy to inspect.  $ 16,000 for Tf is nuts.  The forms in my market would total out at about  $5,000 with the waterproofing at about  $525.  Concrete for forms $3500, pump $650.

actually the 16k also includes basement and garage slab....forgot to mention that part.  so a about 1660 sqft of basement slab and 750 sqft of garage slab.  Also includes stem walls for the garage. THe forms and concrete cost about 10k.

Smartwall,
What part of NY do you work in?

I cover most of NY. I'm based in Johnstown.

Posted By smartwall on 08 Dec 2010 08:07 AM
I cover most of NY. I'm based in Johnstown.

I sent you a PM

Well I am back between SIPs and ICF.  I can get a Hobbs system (r-24-28 insl. value only) and DIY it for about 6k for the upper walls, plus concrete and pump (around 3000).  4" (r-24) urethane SIPs are 7800 delivered, and 6" (r42) are 10k delivered.  SO the ICF is falling right inbetween.  Advanced framing with 2" exterior foam, ZIP sheathing, and blown cellulose costs around 4000, materials.
My main thought is, in a cold climate, are ICF really all they are made out to be?  I am not fully convinced mass truely adds much r value based on case studies I have read. 
Another thing I like about the SIPs are a nailing surface pretty much everywhere.  We do not really have a big termite problem around here, so not that concerning either. 
We plan on doing Hobbs ICF as the basement, so just trying to decide if we want to run it all the way up.
Also when people run it all the way up, and hang the floor off the stucture, do most typically do the SImpson ICF anchors, then attach a ledger, then joist hangers?  Or use hangers off the top course of the wall before we set the upper blocks?  I would think leveling would be much harder this way.