You must read this before you purchase a Climate Master Tranquility geothermal system.

I purchased a Climate Master Tranquility 27 unit in December 2007.  I am still waiting for the unit to 'work the bugs out'.  I hope I don't go bankrupt before I get all the kinks worked out.

First, geothermal is wonderful.  I love it.  We had oil heat before and we always used the gas logs in the fire place.  Since we had geothermal installed, we very rarely use our gas logs.  Love it!!!!

Either the Climate Master Tranquility 27 product is a piece of you know what or just my particular unit is a lemon.  I am giving Climate Master the opportunity to show me it's just my particular unit.

In less than four years:

The auxiliary heat control board burned up.  It was a visibly charred, burnt up circuit board.  During the summer, when there is no aux heat being used, it fails.  But, the design is so poor it fails in the "on" position.  So all summer, our a/c system is cranking out electrical resistance heat (you know how expensive that is) that we are then having to cool with the geothermal a/c system.  6 visits to fix.  Really???  The local company that installed it (ClimateMakers, see the problem, I am so &^$#%) couldn't fix the problem in less than 6 separate trips to my house.

The compressor wouldn't run (fully??)  What do I know?  I called the installer because it wasn't cooling the house.  Two more trips to replace the part that was "shorting out".  Another electrical issue.

Freon leak.  Geothermal systems are like your refrigerator.  They are not like your old a/c system.  There is no inside unit and out side unit that's connected by copper tubing.  It's all one unit make by the manufacturer, Climate Master.  One of their copper joints was leaking.  Their copper union, their joint, their labor, their problem.  Wrong!!!  Climate Master's assistance stopped at providing another $1.25 copper fitting that could have been purchased at Home Depot.  Distributor?  Nope, Virginia Air wouldn't help either.  The local installer, ClimateMakers, were happy to help.  $740.00 their help to fix the manufacturing defect cost me.  3 more days off from work to find and fix the problem.

TXV Valve?  Didn't know I had one.  But, you will when it goes bad.  It's a component inside the refrigerator sized unit.  Again, no one's responsibility but the manufacturers.  They will pay for the part.  Did I want to pay $100 to have the part shipped in sooner?  Fortunately, my service warranty, for an additional fee, covers the labor.  But, there is the small issue of me having to pay another $281 for the freon in the system.  Another 3 trips to fix.  Can you say ka-ching?

Evaporator leak!!!!  You got to be kidding me.  You know the routine.  The part is covered.  But, to get the part shipped sooner it will cost me $200.  I am just so thankful to the local installer, ClimateMasters, that they found the evaporator leak before they installed the TXV valve.  If they had not found the second freon leak before installing the TXV valve it would have cost me more days off from work and another $281 worth of freon.  Yippy!!

Can you tell that I am less than happy right now?  In less than four years two electrical components failed, a mechanical valve failed, and there were two separate leaks on the sealed freon system.  This is just a poorly manufactured unit.

I am looking for manufacture (ClimateMaker.  Did you know that they are owned by Carrier!!), distributor (Virginia Air), and/or the installer (ClimateMakers) to step up and do the right thing.  The unit I have is a lemon.  They need to step up and replace the unit.  The $27,989 that I spent to have my HVAC system modernized is at risk because neither the manufacture / distributor / installer has stepped up and spent the $2-3,000 it would cost to install a new unit.

I will keep you posted!!

I have installed several Climatemaster units with few problems. that is not to say no problems as they have certainly had a glitch or two. What I see when I read complaints like these however is poor service from the installing contractor.

Not too many things take six visits to fix, but plenty of things can be a little illussive. Your electrical problems make me wonder about the wiring to the system. and six visits for 1 problem make me wonder about your installer.

The few times I have had problems with Climatemasters my customers have not paid for repairs as they have occured within my labor warranty period. Nor have they paid for accelerated shipping. that I do not carry the brand anymore is an issue with the distributor not the manufacturer.

My suggestion is that you go over all your contracts carefully and lean on the installer for greater contribution. Most complaints that itemize how long repairs took are ultimately not the manufacturers fault. Mu;tiple problems on the other hand, might garner assistance from manufacturer or distributor if it is not due to installer error.

I also suggest finding another reputable geo installer to verify no installer error has contributed to problems.

Good luck,
Joe

I wonder about your installer as well. CM makes good equipment. I too install a different brand, but as with Joe, it's a distribution issue for us as well.

As an installer of of such an expensive system with such a barrage of failures, I would have done anything reasonable to insulate the customer from the costs of repair. I would have leaned pretty hard on distributor and mfg to pitch in a bit if the problems weren't related to installation.

It may be the installer "bought" the job with a low bid and then, lacking enough margin to provide support, walked away.

There are ways to creatively draw attention to your situation so as to garner some good will assistance. Posting here is among those.

The local installer, ClimateMakers, were happy to help.

I'm a little unclear on this. The installer is making the fixes, but charging you for them and the manufacturer and distributor are refusing the (warranty) claims altogether?

I pray this does not happen to me... I have a Tranquility 27 6 ton unit, just installed 9/2011. This was one of my concerns as I executed the change to geo, and the huge moneytary investment in the equipment.

I gleaned from the internet that Climatemaster was one of the better companies due to their warranty and support of their product. I hope they come through for us, as I want to recommend them to all our friends, and say nothing but good things about their product. Good luck. Please keep us posted.

is this a hit and run complaint?

The manufacturer's warranty specifically excludes freon and labor to perform the repair.  Gotta read the fine print in that thing!!. 

The charge from the local installer to replace the copper union was $740.00.  The unit had to be completely disassembled since the faulty union was located deep inside the system.  ClimateMaster's liability was limited to the cost of the copper fitting.  The installer had to pull a man off the streets for a day to perform the repair; but, they got paid $740 for it.  My position is that the repair was clearly to repair a manufacturing defect and that I was the only one that had to pay for the repair.

At other times, like when it was 100 degrees outside and the system was not running, if I wanted the system working within one week, I had to pay to get parts shipped sooner because the distributor doesn't stock parts.  Isn't that part of the value added service that a distributor is suppose to be supplying?

VBTony

Joe, I'm sure what a "hit and run complaint" is.

First, thanks for your insightful reply from earlier and I'm sorry that I did not reply.

I agree with your thoughts completely.  Six visits to diagnose and correct a problem is ridiculous.  I would have expected more from the installing company.  The problem ultimately turned out to be condensing water from the evaporator tripping a water sensor.  I was cycling power to restore operation of the system so internal codes were being cleared.  This contributed to the delay.  Maybe or maybe not, the condensate drain was not installed properly.  But, the problem went away after modifying the drain and relocating the sensor.

You and another installer both state that you used to install CM and that you stopped because of distributor issues.  I see lack of support from my installer's distributor as well.  The parts that my system needs seem to not be stocked by the distributor.

The local installer states that their POC for system problems is the distributor and that they do not interface with the manufacturer.  If this is the communication path implemented (or embraced) by the manufacturer than the distributor should take a more proactive role when addressing these types of issues.  In my personal opinion of distributors (outside of the HVAC industry) I have found that distributors rarely want to interface with end users much less take the more time consuming position of arbitrating a workable solution for all parties involved.  So my gut tells me that this is just a way for the manufacturer to hide from the end user.

Virginia Air is no different.  When I contacted them the person I spoke with told me that he would contact CliamateMasters but they probably wouldn't do anything else.  First, why make this response before LISTENING for more than 15 seconds.  Second, with this guy's attitude is this really the person I want contacting the manufacturer for me to resolve a problem?

VBTony

I have found that distributors rarely want to interface with end users much less take the more time consuming position of arbitrating a workable solution for all parties involved. So my gut tells me that this is just a way for the manufacturer to hide from the end user.

This is the direction that things have been moving for some time now. If you could show me a heat pump company that still does everything they can to make all of their end users happy, then I'd say that was a company that deserved my business. Unfortunately, that sort of thing isn't too long-lived these days.

S--- happens and about the best you can reasonably expect is that the various players actually meet their responsibilities under the expressed warranties, regardless of how lame is is for you, the consumer.

Tony I'm confused as to whether you have a labor warranty, you mention paying for one and also paying for labor.
My end point about the distributor is not support of your expectation that they serve individual customers. My aggravation with mine had nothing to do with CM or inventory issues.

Ultimately the one that owes you is the one who sold you the equipment. Unfortunately that company does not even know how to install a drain (and took six trips to identify that problem). Why would you even lump that example of incompetance in a complaint about a manufacturer?

These things get emotional and are hard to seperate, but hasn't CM satisfied their warranties, isn't your servicer really the one that should have stepped up?

You need a new service agent.

I purchased a Tranquility 27 in the fall of 2009. This unit was installed as part of new construction. I too have had nothing but issues since moving in to my new home. ClimateMaster service has been absolutely HORRIBLE through our whole ordeal. We have had everything from refrigerant leaks to installation issues. Most recently my TXV valve went out. Now I have to pay a different company to come out and replace it at my cost of course. I wish I had done more research before purchasing ClimateMaster. I am so frusterated with this company. If I could afford to do so I would completley rip the system out and replace it with another brand. I hope anyone considering purchasing a ClimateMaster unit does their homework first!

Joe, I tried to take some responsibility for the 6 service calls to fix the drain. By me resetting the system, the installing company did not know the source of the error. Once they got the error code data they fixed the drain issue. Could they have done it better / sooner? Absolutely.

However, I do feel that my gripe with the manufacturer is well placed and well deserved.

Two separate leaks on the sealed refrigeration system is a problem somewhere with ClimateMaster. It could be a problem in their manufacturing processes. It could be a problem with their QC department not rejecting inferior incoming parts. It could be a problem with their QC department not properly inspecting their own work. It could be a problem with their work flow process that does not require inspection of certain manufacturing steps. We don't know. But, the problem and ultimately the solution lies within CM.

The TXV valve failure? I don't know. Maybe a bad part, maybe a design flaw, maybe a mis-diagnosis. I don't know. You don't know either.

The sweat joint on the copper union. Maybe it was a bad part. Or it could have been a bad solder joint. Either way the problem rests with the manufacturer.

Evaporator leak. I'm not 100% sure where the exact leak was. It could be internal to the evaporator which would be a QC issue. Or, it could be the sweat joint where the evaporator connects. Again, I do not see this as an installer issue.

Aux heater control board burned up. How is that an installer issue?

I don't know what component controls the relay to tell the second stage of the compressor to kick in. But it failed. Again, how is this an installer issue.

Contractually, ClimateMaster has honor their responsibility to replace the defective part.

However, I will argue that the particular unit they sold the distributor, the distributor sold the installer, and the installer sold me has a systemic problem and needs to be replaced. Multiple leaks and component failures is not normal for this unit.

Has the installer let me down? Absolutely. They should have escalated this to the distributor to get some 'help' for the end user with the unit with all the problems. The distributor should have gotten ClimateMaster involved to help provide some relief for the end user. Unfortunately the installer quit caring about me as soon as the invoice was paid. So this left me having to fight the battle with ClimateMaster myself.

My particular unit is a lemon. It needs to be replaced. There is no way on earth ClimateMaster could survive if the quantity and type of failures my unit is experiencing is normal. They would implode with CS issues.

Currently, someone at CM is reviewing the history on my unit. When they replace the defective unit, I will happily report that they have stepped up and addressed the problem.

I’m surprised that you did not see any indication on your thermostat that the backup was on during the summer. I routinely pull the breaker to ‘Off’ on our system at the end of the heating season. There is no mention of your ground loop system. I would be interested in hearing the details of that part of the system too. SR

Tony,
Understand I'm not unsympathetic, nor busting your chops.
My reference list includes customers where things went wrong so perspective buyers can see how I "man-up".
The problem here is the competence of your installer makes all the diagnosis suspect.
I can tell you that I sold CMs for some time and leaks were virtually nonexistant and the one I did have was obvious at the installation.
Techs that do proper start-ups recognize problems right away not a year later.
I have had TXVs fail on different brands. A TXV is a 3rd party manufactured mechanical device and failure is not unheard of with any heat pump manufacturer. 
By and large Climatemaster uses the same vendors as everyone else for their major components which is why we say the biggest difference is with the dealer.
You can rail against them all you want, but I would have another company in to look over the install. If CM were to decide to send a rep out, it'd be good to know your installer didn't void all the warranties with poor workmanship.

Good Luck,
Joe

Posted By popfizz7 on 25 Oct 2011 11:25 AM
I purchased a Tranquility 27 in the fall of 2009. This unit was installed as part of new construction. I too have had nothing but issues since moving in to my new home. ClimateMaster service has been absolutely HORRIBLE through our whole ordeal. We have had everything from refrigerant leaks to installation issues. Most recently my TXV valve went out. Now I have to pay a different company to come out and replace it at my cost of course. I wish I had done more research before purchasing ClimateMaster. I am so frusterated with this company. If I could afford to do so I would completley rip the system out and replace it with another brand. I hope anyone considering purchasing a ClimateMaster unit does their homework first!

See again, the "installation issues" suggest incompetence on the original installers end making all other diagnosis suspect.
I'm really not trying to bust stones here, but over and over people will complain about a manufacturer (more often a brand other than CM btw) and then list everything their installer screwed up.

Folks don't worry about the brand you choose, worry about who you buy it from. No one has more control over your satisfaction than the installer.

popfizz,
make sure you fully research the new service company you select and you may find hope with a competant technician. Changing brands is less likely to help but more likely to cost you most.

Everyone else when you buy a geo heat pump, the manufacturer offers part only warranties other than specified. These do not cover refrigerant. Extended warranties are available for a price that still may not cover 100% of the labor or materials.

Read your contract carefully, educate yourself on your exposure, find the best contractor you can and you will be satisfied even if $4!+ happens.

The intallation error on my system had to do with thermostat wiring and setup. Not ClimateMaster. All of my other problems were due to equipment failures. Now I dont trust the installer to come out and fix issues because he told me that he cannot run a business working for free because ClimateMaster wont pay him. Plus I caught him lying to me about work he said he completed but never got done. I told him that if I had to PAY somebody to come out again to make repairs that it would NOT be him. But somebody else. I have already paid him once to make a proper installation with QUALITY, FUNCTIONING EQUIPMENT. ClimateMaster on the other hand will not return my calls. Everytime I call them, I have to tell my story to a different person every time and it gets me no where everytime. I finally got my distributor involved but they to have had no luck getting through to ClimateMaster. They obviouosly have some Q/A problems in general, but especially with their expansion valves. I dont care who they get their expansion valves from. From a consumers stand point, an expansion valve is part of a complete system. If ClimateMaster has had multiple expansion valve failures, which I know they have had, then they know there is a problem. All I want them to do is take responsibility for their product. Find a new vendor or install a better valve. I dont care. I just want my unit to function correctly.

Let me jump in here, as a Climatemaster, Hydron Module and Waterfurnace dealer/installer. Climatemaster equipment in general is very reliable, however every equipment can fail. Many parts are the same, no matter who the manufacturer is. We give 3 year warranty on all our work, no questions asked. Beyond that we accept the labor allowance and have never charged the customer extra. Your issue primarily is not the brand, but the installer. While not his fault, it is primarily his problem. He is the one you contracted with to install and sell you a functioning system. He presumably marked up the equipment for exactly that reason, to be there for you if something fails. The more problematic somethings gets, the more reason to be there for your customer, not to abandon him. You should not have to deal with Climatemaster.
Luckily it happens rarely, but our distributor is there when I needed them, and tech support at Climatemaster was standing by, and were great help. Again, it boils down to the installer and his relationship with you, the customer, and also the manufacturer. Give your installer a notice, tell him what he needs to fix, if he does not have it fixed by someone else and send him the bill. If he does not pay it, take him to court. Relatively simple. The manufacturer is pretty helpless in this industry, they rely on their installers, they don't have a service crew out in the field. It is pretty much like a car manufacturer and their dealer network.
It is like the car industry, the manufacturers don't do the service, they rely on their dealer. They can lean on them, and they are involved in things like your car becoming a lemon. But it is the dealer who carries the weight if he wants to. Only once I found the condition of a brand new heatpump so bad that I got the customer a new replacement. It was not a climatemaster.

If installer was a a real hack, he / she may have neglected to provide and correctly operate a nitrogen purge while brazing. That puts bits of copper oxide in the system. Any not caught by the filter drier may block the TXV inlet screen.

If your Tranq 27 is a package unit (compressor and air handler all in a single cabinet) the foregoing does not apply.

Again, I don't want anyone to feel picked on, but things are as Doc says. Everyone may as well hear it right here and perhaps it should be on the "Shoppers checklist":

WARNING:
If you buy a heat pump and it breaks, the manufacturer will provide a part or labor as described in their warranty and absolutely nothing more.
The distributor (if there is one) may or may not have it in stock so you may have to wait for it. They will order whatever you need and generally pass along shipping and processing fees.
All the labor, refrigerant, freight and shipping/processing fees are virtually never covered by these folks. Further I'm not a fan of the car analogy because the manufacturer and distributor have no influence over the dealers as they are not franchisees, therefore they will not intervene on your behalf.

Dealer, dealer, dealer, DEALER................is the one that owes it to you to:
Make sure a unit is selected that is reliable.
Select a distributor who stocks parts or eats overnight fees.
Educate you on what you are getting, what is covered under warranty and what your exposure is. Sell you an extended warranty if you want one.
Dealer needs to go the extra mile to ensure your satisfaction.
Dealer needs to charge you enough to cover your needs.

Happy to report that communication lines between the manufacturer, distributor, installer and myself have opened up. Late Friday, the manufacturer agreed to fully cover the costs of the most recent repair needed or provide a new replacement unit. This was impressive. ClimateMaster agreed to the repair or replacement unit within 5 days after being provided the history on the system. Thank you ClimateMaster and Virginia Air.

I opted for the new unit. I have contacted the local dealer that installed the unit to see what can be done, cost wise, on installing a replacement unit. They will research the situation and get back to me.

In full disclosure......while speaking with ClimateMaker regarding installing the replacement unit, they did remind me that my comments here did not include the facts that since the unit was installed a house addition was done. The Tranquility unit was sized for the addition and capacity has never been an issue. However, the GC doing the addition did not use ClimateMaker to do the HAVC work on the addition. As a result, the third zone had some air flow problems that had to be corrected by ClimateMakers after the fact. I did not include this in my description of my problems with the unit. While, I stand by my position that air flow / zone issues did not cause the multiple sealed system leaks and TXV valve failure; I can agree with the installer that an air flow issue did not help the unit. Sorry for the omission.

VBTony